http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwmrOIDy6r4
Thanks man. Here is the high def version.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtQYhs4WUP0&feature=youtu.be
Oh nice.. even better
Yeah, it's golden right? Hey Joe, your guitar is looking bad ass.
Thx man.. here's a pic I got on my phone..
http://pbs.twimg.com/media/A5qPuM5CQAA7ukd.jpg:large (http://pbs.twimg.com/media/A5qPuM5CQAA7ukd.jpg:large)
Damn it's amazing. Looks like your Boner is holding up the guitar.
Awesome!
Part II
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SwBO49zC5g
Thanks you beat me to it. I really like the part at the end where he talks about the monitors solely putting through the signal of those respective of players.
Here is Mike explaining his rig!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42fnnZgTk0E
http://youtu.be/xXwUTBKRcWo
Treys Rig was probably shot at Dicks on 8/31/12. Mikes was shot during the MSG tun for sure because he had a much bigger rig before the MSG run. Treys rig didnt have a Victoria Reverberator sitting on the left side when he was showing his off.
Treys was from Jones Beach.
Oh cool.
Re: Trey's Equipment Theory @ 4:05
I agree, I think I'm the same way. I'm kind of a luddite when it comes to gear... I've been using the same stuff for at least 10 years now. New gear requires a lengthy "getting to know you" phase of the relationship - can be fun, but tedious and not very reliable or stable. I would love to get a new amp but GOD, yeah, figuring out where my sweet spots are can be a frickin' nightmare.. For example, when my Wah finally died last year, my response was to just drop it from my rig... instead of buying a new wah.
Dope musicians (I'm not one but I know a bunch) can make ANYTHING sound good. Spending a bunch of cash isn't going to do crap for you if your time and chops suck. The one teacher I studied with for a few months about 15 years ago told me "Don't spend more than 1200-1500 bucks on a guitar..." I sort of agree, but I guess its nice to have something a little different, and that can take some moolah. (Looking at the Doc players...)
How often do you have to adjust your necks and bridges? I'd imagine (may be way off, but this is my assumption) that the Doc can be very finicky... very responsive. Requires a lot of care - I'd probably want to have it serviced at least 2-3 times a year, depending on climate. Why buy a Ferrari and fill it up with 87 octane/obey speed limits?
Settle in and open that fucker up! :)
I've had my Languedoc set up once since I got it in 09. And my Luthier did very little to it. Intonation is always spot on, no buzz, and in tune when it comes out of the case, that neck is very stable.
That said, I am not gigging with it regularly.
So Trey uses Celestian G12-80 Classic lead speakers right? Anyone agree? Anyone have one or used one?
Adjustment issues with guitars such as truss rods have a lot to do with humidity.
sssoooo, that little jazz run that he does at 1:12 sounds so sexy....anyone have any good jazz resources they recommend or scales to work on? I've been stuck in the pentatonic lately and i wanna get the hell out of it...I WANT JAZZZ BROTHA
In part 2 Trey says he has nothing but vocals coming through his front monitors. I would think that he would have at least some guitar going through them to help sustain but then again he has four speakers behind him. But when the speakers are behind him won't that hinder sustain since there is not a direct path for sustain? Also that doesn't sound like the sound bubble Brad Sarno speaks of.
Quote from: Happyorange27 on January 06, 2013, 10:03:17 PM
In part 2 Trey says he has nothing but vocals coming through his front monitors. I would think that he would have at least some guitar going through them to help sustain but then again he has four speakers behind him. But when the speakers are behind him won't that hinder sustain since there is not a direct path for sustain? Also that doesn't sound like the sound bubble Brad Sarno speaks of.
How would the monitors (front or back) help with sustain?
If you get a monitor to push air toward your guitar's body, you are going to increase your chance of feedback immensely. Resonance! If it's only from behind, your body is blocking those heady vibrations.
Quote from: webephishin on January 06, 2013, 09:16:08 PM
sssoooo, that little jazz run that he does at 1:12 sounds so sexy....anyone have any good jazz resources they recommend or scales to work on? I've been stuck in the pentatonic lately and i wanna get the hell out of it...I WANT JAZZZ BROTHA
Sure, TONS! Email me if you want.
I think the BEST scale to know to start learning jazz is the Major scale - seriously. I think he's just playing G major right there (hendrixy-ish "Wait til Tomorrow"-y vamp you're talking about?)
Quote from: fulltone1989 on January 06, 2013, 11:15:25 AM
Adjustment issues with guitars such as truss rods have a lot to do with humidity.
Yeah. Living in the Midwest, I usually have to get mine adjusted a few times a year, even though my guitar is built like an Abrams tank. Correct me if I'm wrong, but lighter, hollow/semi-hollows and archtops are more susceptible to this? I was assuming that the density of the wood, surface area (basically physical properties of the guitar, etc) may have something to do with it. That being said, I try not to sweat too heavily on it/take it swimming in Lake Erie.
And in the video you can see both TS9s are Silver mods. Thought he might have reverted but no. That's why 3.0 sounds so bright and clear.
Quote from: Happyorange27 on January 05, 2013, 03:06:41 PM
So Trey uses Celestian G12-80 Classic lead speakers right? Anyone agree? Anyone have one or used one?
It kinda looked like that's what it was.
I have 2 speakers that are very similar and they've been 2 of my favorite speakers. I have a Mesa C90 (made by Celestion), which from what I've researched is very similar to the Classic Lead 80. And I also have the Egnater 1x12 cab with at Elite 80 (made by Celestion, but I think in China), and I remember reading Bruce Egnater's post somewhere saying that it is the CL80 with a couple tweaks to get the sound he wants for the Rebel amplifier.
They are both loaded in different cabs, but when I've compared all my speakers with the same amps, I've noticed these 2 are nearly identical in tone. Both are very transparent, but I think I like the Egnater speaker a little better. Just seems a little warmer/smoother, while I think the other sounds just a little sterile in comparison. I will note that my Egnater cab is way more used and broken in than the Mesa cab, so that may also figure into the comparison.
And Happy, because I know you also are a fan of the Cannabis Rex speaker, that is the other one I really like alot, and was toying with the idea for a while to get a 2x12 speaker cab made and match a Cannabis Rex with a Classic Lead 80. I think it would be a hell of a sound!
Yes that would be divine.
Quote from: Happyorange27 on January 07, 2013, 02:45:50 PM
And in the video you can see both TS9s are Silver mods. Thought he might have reverted but no. That's why 3.0 sounds so bright and clear.
What i noticed about his TS9's in the video is that both of their levels are cranked all the way up...this is different than this pic from this forum....http://strangedesign.org/forums/index.php?topic=2.0
Anyone care to elaborate on this?
Quote from: webephishin on January 07, 2013, 04:24:24 PM
Quote from: Happyorange27 on January 07, 2013, 02:45:50 PM
And in the video you can see both TS9s are Silver mods. Thought he might have reverted but no. That's why 3.0 sounds so bright and clear.
What i noticed about his TS9's in the video is that both of their levels are cranked all the way up...this is different than this pic from this forum....http://strangedesign.org/forums/index.php?topic=2.0
Anyone care to elaborate on this?
That's how you get the maximum ts9 tone out of those pedals! IMO, there is no other way to use them. When I was doing the Phish coverband thing I used mine (both '82's - no mods) both with volume maxed, gain on the dirt one was maxed too. The other I usually had the gain around 9 or 10 o'clock. You hear the sustain he gets out of his gear when he plays the long note in the video? That is just as much due to the TS9 settings as it is he's using the Ross compressor. The cool thing is you can turn them all the way up, and if you use your compressor after it, you kind of gate your volume with the compressor, so you're not overbearingly loud. I know another poster on here said that he didn't even have the volume knob on his Mesa MkIII very high either. If that is all true, that means that the ts9 is a large part of his overall tone, not to discount what the Languedoc is doing for his tone either though.
I agree on the maxed out TS's being the shizzz. Can't beat 'em through a DR. You just don't get the same response otherwise. My only problem I've been running in to with the maxed volume TS's-->Comp is it has been mushing my comp out to the point of sounding.....well.....mushy. Sloppy, tubby, flubby, flabby low end. I'm using a CompRossor and running all o this to my MKIII. It sounds REALLY good on the clean channel and not as flubby but the lead channel is another story. That's where all the mush happens. I've tried all sorts of eq'ing but to no avail. Makes me wonder what mods (if any) he's had done. From what I can tell his settings on the Boogie look like the following:
Volume 1 - 8.5 pulled
Treble - 5.5 pulled
Bass - 2.5
Middle - 5.5
Master volume - 3 (this is loud btw)
Lead gain - 3
Lead master - 3
I was snapping pics like the papparazi while watching the video. You can see some of the numbers on the blue tape. The others I gathered by the space between 1 and 10 on the knobs. These settings still yield a pretty saturated gain on the lead channel (and the clean for that matter) with all the preamp tubes being 12ax7's. I swapped V1 for a 12at7 and V3 for a 12ay7 and the PI for a 12at7 and this got me closer to a "cleaner" more articulate sound like he's copping. Anyone that's ever played a Boogie knows the magic happens in the higher Volume1 setting. So this begs the question. Is he using a mix match of preamp tubes or has he had some sort of gain reduction mod done? I dunno.
HappyOrange I'm pretty sure those are Vintage 30's. I have a pair and its the same logo on the magnet. Not to be confused with the G12H30's. Those are the heavier magnet greenbacks.
Shocked thanks. That does look to be the case. I got off on a tangent.
Shocked- Does your Mesa have the graphic equalizer? I think that's an important part to the equation of the lead channel. I have an MkIII and it sounds great on any channel I use it on. From your post, it sounds to me like its either your compressor or the amp that's causing the mushiness. Remove the comp and see how the amp reacts to the maxed ts9s. And I wouldn't rely too much on what you see in the picture of his settings. Unless you're running all the same gear, I don't think thats gonna give you what you want to hear. Listen with your ears, not your eyes. Yes the eyes can give you a good reference point to start with, but don't concern them with the end result. I don't have my boogie dialed in to the "Trey sound" anymore, but from memory, I can tell you that I had my treble knob turned up to about 7 (maybe even 7.5), bass around 1 or 2, and mids at about 4. Also, just find the sweet spot on the volume knob (mine was around 6 to 7.5), and then let the master set the overall loudness of the amp.
Hope that helps... and back to my original thought about the GEQ. I believe that it effects the signal after the gain stages, so that should make it easy to remove any mush that you believe is created while the the tubescreamers are maxed and the amp is in the lead channel. And you can set the GEQ to only be on when you are on the lead channel.
Stecks - About keeping the rig simple and familiar, see my Garcia quote in my signature ;)
Happy - I thought those are V30 speakers, I think there are a few sources saying thats what he uses / has used with the Mesa. Thought about trying some with mine even though I like my WGS Celestion Blue/Gold clone. PS - having said that, I kinda wanna try a WGS Retro 30 with a higher power handling voice coil - at $70, not too bad ;)
Shocked - Sometimes my Mesa sounds pretty dark until I get it loud or mic it - a good mic'ing brings out top-end clarity, but having it eq'ed darker keeps it from being harsh or gritty. Thats my take at least.
Thats cool he is using coil drop more, I love my single coil setting! I also noticed when he turned on a TS (particularly the dirtier one) he got some hum, which I never hear live IIRC. Makes me feel better about when I get hum :D
It also sounded like he didn't have the TS's on during a fair bit of what he was playing during that video. I suspect it was either the audio quality or he just didn't care if they were on or off since he was just demoing and not actually playing.
Wilson- Yes my amp is a DRG MKIII but I don't think it's the problem. As my OP says the TS's are mushing out my comp. I guess what I was asking was do any Grey Ross owners experience the mush too at higher volume settings with your TS's or is it the AnalogMan? I am a VERY firm believer in "listening" with my ears and not my eyes as well. I was just posting those settings as a benchmark.
also when trey switches from single coil to humbucker mode, theres practically no volume difference.
i heard once that paul modded the 59 pickups, actually just one (said he unwound it and rotated the magnet 90°), so that the guitar was still humbucking in single coil mode.
could the pickups be modded some how as well to avoid volume drop?
im using an artinger with lollar imperials and the volume drop is definitely noticeable....
Quote from: connor117 on January 09, 2013, 09:43:39 AM
also when trey switches from single coil to humbucker mode, theres practically no volume difference.
i heard once that paul modded the 59 pickups, actually just one (said he unwound it and rotated the magnet 90°), so that the guitar was still humbucking in single coil mode.
could the pickups be modded some how as well to avoid volume drop?
im using an artinger with lollar imperials and the volume drop is definitely noticeable....
Well listening to this through YouTube, a production editor, and a Ross compressor isn't going to let you hear much of a volume difference. I'm sure it's more about how much output is entering the rig which influences more of a crisp single coil sound versus a fatter humbucker sound. So it's more about sound texture than for audience volume. But I bet if you were there in person and played his Doc straight into his amp (compressor off) then you would here the difference.
Quote from: connor117 on January 09, 2013, 09:43:39 AM
also when trey switches from single coil to humbucker mode, theres practically no volume difference.
i heard once that paul modded the 59 pickups, actually just one (said he unwound it and rotated the magnet 90°), so that the guitar was still humbucking in single coil mode.
could the pickups be modded some how as well to avoid volume drop?
im using an artinger with lollar imperials and the volume drop is definitely noticeable....
I also play an Artinger with Lollar Imperials ;)
I have heard that he mods or modded pickups as well, but some people argue (with a great deal of certainty) that he stopped doing this years ago, possibly not since he worked at Time.
There are all sorts of things you can do with these sort of pups if you want to open them up (such as using turing a coil into a dummy coil), but my understanding is that he no longer does anything like that. In my discussion with him, his wiring is quite similar to schematics that are widely available. Although I suspect there are nuances or there is the possibility he just doesn't want to talk about trade secrets, understandably.
I agre with Happy - there would not be a volume drop considering all the compression from the TS9, Comp and also a Mesa is hardly affected by input volume itself.
On that note, I do notice a difference in the amount of drive that I get from the TS9 when in single coil (or parallel) mode because of the lower output. Considering this, the best evidence of whether his single setting changes the guitar's output would actually be paying attention to changes in the amount of distortion.
Absolutely^. Also I tend to turn down my guitar volume or switch to single coil when using my wah. One thing i don't care for is to much signal going through my wah when i have the TS9s on. It's just too harsh. I think i might add more resistance to the input of my wah to make it a bit quieter.
Good point about the wah happy - I think that is one of the things I struggle with on a wah. The resistance of a guitar volume knob also tends to bleed off some treble in any schematic I have tried, which is why I am using a DVP1 before my TS9, to avoid this. However, I could see how a subtle taming of treble could be helpful with a wah, especially toe-down - would I be correct in assuming adding resistance to your wah (as you describe) would also have this effect? I assume it would unless you have a buffer before the wah.
I'm not an expert but usually the more resistance you add, the more chance you have of losing high end. But I think capacitance plays just as much a role. I think most audio signals are like RC circuits meaning resistance and capacitance play a role in the output. I actually wouldn't mind a little high end being lost.
Quote from: Happyorange27 on January 09, 2013, 01:01:43 PM
I'm not an expert but usually the more resistance you add, the more chance you have of losing high end. But I think capacitance plays just as much a role. I think most audio signals are like RC circuits meaning resistance and capacitance play a role in the output. I actually wouldn't mind a little high end being lost.
Well, if voltage is constant, then an increase in resistance would require a decrease in current, according to Ohm's Law...
>> reply from paul about pickup mod
" I don't add windings, I just reverse the magnet on one of the pickups and
> switch the phase on the wiring so it's back in phase. This makes the pickups
> humbucking in single coil mode so it's quieter. I also re-pot them after the
> covers are on. "
follow up email
" however the
modification I do is pretty simple and only relevant if you have a coil drop
switch. It's just a matter of flipping the magnet on one of the pickups (I
do the neck pickup but it doesn't matter) 180 degrees (the short way, not
the long way) so that the pickups will be hum canceling when run together in
single coil mode. Flipping the magnet will make them out of phase, so the
modified pickup will have to be wired in reverse when it's installed to put
them back in phase. Also I repot the pickups after the covers are on to make
them solid. There's no secret magic about it, it just makes the pickups hum
canceling in this one configuration."
still doesnt clarify volume question....from my experience even with mesa, ross, ts9s....theres a volume drop....
maybe trey is a volume wizard and adjusts wo thinking about it.
like going to SC when on the wah as mentioned....
Sweet! ;D
Quote from: connor117 on January 11, 2013, 03:56:10 AM
>> reply from paul about pickup mod
" I don't add windings, I just reverse the magnet on one of the pickups and
> switch the phase on the wiring so it's back in phase. This makes the pickups
> humbucking in single coil mode so it's quieter. I also re-pot them after the
> covers are on. "
follow up email
" however the
modification I do is pretty simple and only relevant if you have a coil drop
switch. It's just a matter of flipping the magnet on one of the pickups (I
do the neck pickup but it doesn't matter) 180 degrees (the short way, not
the long way) so that the pickups will be hum canceling when run together in
single coil mode. Flipping the magnet will make them out of phase, so the
modified pickup will have to be wired in reverse when it's installed to put
them back in phase. Also I repot the pickups after the covers are on to make
them solid. There's no secret magic about it, it just makes the pickups hum
canceling in this one configuration."
still doesnt clarify volume question....from my experience even with mesa, ross, ts9s....theres a volume drop....
maybe trey is a volume wizard and adjusts wo thinking about it.
like going to SC when on the wah as mentioned....
In other words, this only makes a difference when the pup selector is in the middle position.
Couple things about my Doc,
Volume doesn't change when switching to single coil, and there is no hum.
Quote from: picture_of_nectar on January 11, 2013, 11:49:20 AM
Couple things about my Doc,
Volume doesn't change when switching to single coil, and there is no hum.
That's interesting especially about the volume.
That makes sense. Usually, there's a volume drop when one is playing with a combination of neck and bridge pickups in series or parallel. One way I get around this is with my volume pedal - when I experience the drop, I nudge the pedal up a tad.
There is definitely not a noticeable volume drop when I switch to coil split on my AO. I've never noticed it anyway, maybe AO implies the same sort of thing, I have no idea. What about your guitar Happy?
It's really one of the more amazing things about the Doc, how even the output is switching between all the different settings. The tone changes, but volume remains pretty consistent.
Quote from: ColForbin on January 11, 2013, 12:40:35 PM
There is definitely not a noticeable volume drop when I switch to coil split on my AO. I've never noticed it anyway, maybe AO implies the same sort of thing, I have no idea. What about your guitar Happy?
I definitely here a volume drop when I split the coil. Maybe AO changed his method after my guitar was built. And I don't really mind. I switch to single coil when using my wah for clarity. Or if I need to hide in the mix while someone is singing, I drop the volume with a flick as well.
I sent this info to AO in an email and asked him if he is doing this method mentioned above. We will see what he says.
And when I put my pickups in series (which can only be done when the pickup selector is in the neck position) the volume is even louder than when the humbuckers are in parallel. So I actually have 3 different volumes depending on the selection.
I have volume drop in single coil mode as well with my AO
thanks dudes- looking forward to hearing the repsonse from AO about avoiding volume drop.....
paul must REALLY use magic dust!!
* next questions> trey talks about streams of signals....the 2 ts9s, ross, and wah are 1......leslie is seperate....dijcrap is seperate....
so when he engages that stuff, is he running like stereo ? 2 sperate signals?
or does his main board then go INTO them?
for example, is he 1) getting a clean signal into the whammy II and then is fed back thru the ts9/ross board, 2) feeding signal into the whammy 2 and THEN into the ts9/ross board, or 3) are they running in parallel into the mesa??
how might someone do this with say loop master pedals versus a bradshaw rack system?
thanks brothers for your observations and opinions?
Quote from: connor117 on January 12, 2013, 04:50:43 AM
thanks dudes- looking forward to hearing the repsonse from AO about avoiding volume drop.....
paul must REALLY use magic dust!!
* next questions> trey talks about streams of signals....the 2 ts9s, ross, and wah are 1......leslie is seperate....dijcrap is seperate....
so when he engages that stuff, is he running like stereo ? 2 sperate signals?
or does his main board then go INTO them?
for example, is he 1) getting a clean signal into the whammy II and then is fed back thru the ts9/ross board, 2) feeding signal into the whammy 2 and THEN into the ts9/ross board, or 3) are they running in parallel into the mesa??
how might someone do this with say loop master pedals versus a bradshaw rack system?
thanks brothers for your observations and opinions?
I am not sure if I am completely following what your trying to ask about his signal chain, ie, the example you give, I don't see any difference between option 1 & 2? Never owned a whammy personally, but I am pretty sure it is the first thing to see signal in Trey's rig (probably important for tracking).
His main, pedal, effects always run before the other loops or paths in his signal. After those effects, he can choose whether to send the signal through his Dig Crap loop or whatever prior to sending the signal to either his guitar amp or leslie.
As far as series vs parallel, I believe these would be series. It would be possible to have parallel loops and running effects like delay and reverb as 100% wet effect only (not passing dry signal), then mixing it back with the dry prior to sending signal to an amp. This could help keep the signals integrity intact, however, when Trey demoed the reverse delay, it sounded like it was effect only and not being blended with dry signal. This makes me think the loop is series - not parallel and blended back with dry before the amp. Also - Happy, was that reverse delay thing he did what you were talking about when we discussed trying to get his really legato sound?
However, the signal does split when he chooses between the guitar amp or leslie - this would be parallel and
could be run in stereo or blended (not necessarily stereo panned between the two), but, to be honest, I have no idea if he does that or not. On one hand, it would make an effect like the Leslie more subtle. Yet this is likely a moot point as I doubt 99.9% of people reading this have access to an actual leslie.
With a loop master, you would put effects in separate true-bypass loops to keep them from eroding the signal when not in use. You could have a loop for each effect or a loop with multiple effecta in it - your preference. All of your loops would be series (not parallel, again, unless you want delay and reverb, or even modulation, effect only and mixed with your dry signal - this would better preserve your dry signal, but could make using effects like the reverse delay Trey demoed impossible or difficult). On that note, if you have an amp with an effect loop, you could send signal out of the loop master to the amp input, amps effect loop send back to the loop master with loops for your wet effects, then send that back to the amp's return. Also you could run guitar>main effect pedals>loop master w/ dig crap type stuff>amp, or you could put your main pedals in a loop or loops. An example of why you might do the latter is if you don't want both TS9 buffers in your signal chain at the same time, or the whammy as it would affect your signal (though I have seen arguments that these artifacts are key to Trey's tone, I never used a whammy so I don't know).
Hope this makes sense, I can try to clarify some of the points. Also, hopefully it came through that a lot of what I wrote is just guesses or speculation.
I was talking about a "slow gear" or a DIY version called the lazy sprocket. It is kind if a crescendo pedal to control attack. I'm not too interested in it now since I cranked my screamers and I get legato now.
A whammy II is on my list. I need to confirm placement in the chain and the searing tone.
Quote from: Happyorange27 on January 12, 2013, 12:37:57 PM
I was talking about a "slow gear" or a DIY version called the lazy sprocket. It is kind if a crescendo pedal to control attack. I'm not too interested in it now since I cranked my screamers and I get legato now.
A whammy II is on my list. I need to confirm placement in the chain and the searing tone.
Yep - I remember that pedal in your thread or whatever. I am kinda on the same page with that - it sounded sweet when he demoed the reverse delay, but with the right approach, I can get fairly legato and a nice bloom on notes, which the reverse seems to do - I think it is a combo of compression and a slow buildup of feedback. Plus that last thing I need is to add another pedal just for that reverse effect - I just rewired my entire board and only have a tiny space left and no more power spots (I don't have a wah or my Rat on the board now, nor my EQ, which I was only using with my DR anyway).
There was a old pic of Trey's signal chain - I think it was from a 98 issue of GW.?. and I can't find the pic anymore, but it showed the whammy directly in his signal chain, right after the guitar. I can't remember if he said anything different than that in the video on this thread though.
Happy - I'm sorry I've been too busy and haven't been able to get the Alesis Microverb recording for you yet. It most likely won't happen until Monday or Tuesday, because I've already got a bunch of stuff on my plate this weekend. It also entails pulling it off the board I have that's stored away right now with all my extra bells and whistles phish gear pedalboard, hence why I can't just do it when I have a minute. The 3 knobs on it are input, mix, and output, so yeah, you you can put the mix totally on the wet side and get that sound.
Heady- The Microverb can be had from Ebay for about $25-30 so it's not a big investment, however, it does/will take up the space of about 2 pedals and there's no switch for it, so you'll need to get a true bypass switching unit for it to turn it on and off (which you can at least mount right on top of the unit (haha...unit) if you want to, if you want to... okay enough with the silliness.
Also, I always got the best tone out of the Whammy II by having it first in my chain, and I remember the layout thing about Trey's gear, and the Whammy was first, so you are correct Heady. I think that's everything I can remember that I wanted to reply about after just reading some of this thread.
On a happy note for myself.... today I just breadboarded up a clone of a fuzz face pedal and after a little troubleshooting it sounded awesome!!! And I also designed about 2/5ths of a Big Muff pedal with a couple changes, that obviously isn't really gonna be a Big Muff clone, but I may end up calling it "The Landing Strip!"
Quote from: IamWILSON on January 12, 2013, 07:58:25 PM
Happy - I'm sorry I've been too busy and haven't been able to get the Alesis Microverb recording for you yet. It most likely won't happen until Monday or Tuesday, because I've already got a bunch of stuff on my plate this weekend. It also entails pulling it off the board I have that's stored away right now with all my extra bells and whistles phish gear pedalboard, hence why I can't just do it when I have a minute. The 3 knobs on it are input, mix, and output, so yeah, you you can put the mix totally on the wet side and get that sound.
Heady- The Microverb can be had from Ebay for about $25-30 so it's not a big investment, however, it does/will take up the space of about 2 pedals and there's no switch for it, so you'll need to get a true bypass switching unit for it to turn it on and off (which you can at least mount right on top of the unit (haha...unit) if you want to, if you want to... okay enough with the silliness.
Also, I always got the best tone out of the Whammy II by having it first in my chain, and I remember the layout thing about Trey's gear, and the Whammy was first, so you are correct Heady. I think that's everything I can remember that I wanted to reply about after just reading some of this thread.
On a happy note for myself.... today I just breadboarded up a clone of a fuzz face pedal and after a little troubleshooting it sounded awesome!!! And I also designed about 2/5ths of a Big Muff pedal with a couple changes, that obviously isn't really gonna be a Big Muff clone, but I may end up calling it "The Landing Strip!"
Lol, nice name for a muff - I was almost done building one a few years ago and never finished. I was thinking about housing it with a stereo chorus and calling it a "wide-set muff." I think it would go really well with a custom compressor called a "squish button."
Speaking of fuzz, I do sometimes miss my Skreddy Lunar Module. Expensive pedal, but sounded pretty killer - I just can't get past the scooped EQ on most fuzz.
I never really looked into other gear in Trey's rig aside from what makes up his core tone, but for $30, a Microverb is a good investment. I don't want to start getting rack gear again though - I had a Rocktron Xpressions velcroed to a board about two years ago with the footswitch velcroed on top of that. Trying to keep my rig simple and mobile.
Damn I just had the sweetest dream last night. I received three packages from the owner of Bonepicker amps (I've been actually waiting forever on a compressor pedal from him). One of the units looked like a Bradshaw switchboard and it had some sweet loops and modulation. And then Trey shows up and I was explaining it to him to try to impress him with my sweet digs. Anyway those are the coolest dreams. I'm sure all if this recent study and revelations of his rig has been playing on my subconscious.
Wow you guys are working on breadboard projects and such?! Good for you.
I'm not really working on building anything - I do have a half built muff I started over a year ago, but I just added the part about the chorus to give it a funny name.
The rest of the rig rundowns!
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLhSlyGvEpIjhKcYI_tN67emmZa8m3gG3Z
Yep you are on the ball too. NIce!
(http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z342/Jon_Weingarden/Screenshot2013-01-22at104137PM_zps11a0016f.png)
(http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z342/Jon_Weingarden/Screenshot2013-01-22at104337PM_zpsf6b4d00b.png)
Gripped these from the video.
The treble is much higher than I usually have mine - the treble boost on the volume knob is also pulled, but the overall volume is louder than I can play at home (or probably inside anywhere) and the knobs on a Mesa are so interactive its hard to tell if the treble might get a bit more mild at that volume.
Why doesn't Trey just spell out all of his secrets already! Ha. Nice work. Hey could you type the values and the corresponding knobs? I don't know what knobs those are.
Quote from: Heady Jam Fan on January 23, 2013, 02:43:28 PM
(http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z342/Jon_Weingarden/Screenshot2013-01-22at104137PM_zps11a0016f.png)
(http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z342/Jon_Weingarden/Screenshot2013-01-22at104337PM_zpsf6b4d00b.png)
Gripped these from the video.
The treble is much higher than I usually have mine - the treble boost on the volume knob is also pulled, but the overall volume is louder than I can play at home (or probably inside anywhere) and the knobs on a Mesa are so interactive its hard to tell if the treble might get a bit more mild at that volume.
From left to right, what I see on the tape is:
8.5P - 5.1P - 1.8 - 5.5 - 1.93 - 3 - 3.5p - 3
Someone else might see/read this differently. I couldn't tell what the blue tape in the back said, but should be the presence setting. I have my presence at 0 currently.
The "p" corresponds to pull - each knob can be pulled for a specific effect.
8.5P - Volume w/ treble boost (bright) pulled for a shimmer on R1 channel (clean)
5.1P - treble w/ treble shift pulled for upper-midrange drive on the lead channel
1.8 - Bass
5.5 - Midrange
1.93 - Master Volume
3 - Lead Drive
3.5P - Lead Master w/ treble / bright pulled - adds brightness to lead channel
3 - Reverb
I found these settings fairly similar to my Deluxe Reverb (I have the treble and bass knobs at 0, and I have a mid-knob, which is maxed) if I turn the tone knob(s) way down on my TS9(s). The DR might still have some more treble and definitely has more bass, its more sensitive and open sounding, but lacks the punch of the Mesa. The Mesa is far-far louder in the above settings than the DR before the DR starts to get noticeably overdriven. On that note, the DR has a slightly larger cab, which actually makes the amp sound bigger in some ways, not to mention the reverb kicks the Mesa's ass. It was cool to compared the amps again because I had my Mesa set a fair amount darker (not to mention my WGS Blackhawk is darker than a V30) - I am not sure if I will keep my Mesa as bright as it is with these settings, but adjusting my playing style a bit, it works pretty well, especially live I think - it will cut a bit more.
Thanks so much.
The Mesa must be very clean in the clean channel if it can go up to 8.5. I don't push much more than 3 on my BJ but I keep the master at least at 6.
I bet the treble is set up high for Trey in order to cut through the mix. I find that when I actually play with a band that I need much more treble. But playing alone, the treble sounds harsh. Do you do the same folks?
Quote from: Happyorange27 on January 23, 2013, 04:14:09 PM
Thanks so much.
The Mesa must be very clean in the clean channel if it can go up to 8.5. I don't push much more than 3 on my BJ but I keep the master at least at 6.
I bet the treble is set up high for Trey in order to cut through the mix. I find that when I actually play with a band that I need much more treble. But playing alone, the treble sounds harsh. Do you do the same folks?
100% agree - I love the smoothness when the treble is anywhere from 0-4 without the bright pulled on the input volume. However, I found myself turning up the treble (usually just the bright pull) when playing in a band - the other guitarist preferred I had a brighter sound and I agreed it worked well for the classic rock style, giving my overdrive more bite, but when we played out, I sometimes didn't cut through as well without the added treble. When I recorded my Mesa in the past, I set up the mic to pick up a lot of treble, but still had smooth overdrive due to the amp's dark setting, plus keeping the treble low helps avoid boosting noise.
Yes - the clean channel is very hard to overdrive. I keep my volume below 3 on my SFDR usually (obviously no master volume).
One thing I should mention is that I have my Mesa in the Simul-Class setting, which is 2 EL34s and 2 6L6's. Pics of the back of Trey's Mesa show 4 6L6's, but pics of the front show the half power setting. I didn't think about that when I tested his settings, I will have to try again with the EL34's pulled. I like that the EL34's add some squish and warm mids though.
Well I did that octal conversion so I could put in the larger output tubes. I have 6V6 in now. But I could certainly try some of the 6L6 or EL34. Now I'm curious...
Lol, sorry if I sparked your GAS.
I don't have a ton of experience with various output tubes - they are kinda pricey to experiment with, but here are my thoughts on those three types of tubes:
6L6's are sometimes too... hifi.?. for me - they have a pretty flat response to my ear, but if you like the big, clean sound, they are where its at. Probably particularly in the Mesa, where they are run pretty cold - I don't remember having quite the same reaction to them in my BF Bassman, though that also had NOS Amperex 6L6's. The 6V6 sounds like the 6L6's little brother to me; maybe not quite as broad of a frequency response, but still pretty clean and clear without much compression compared to the EL34's (obviously compression depends on a lot of things).
EL34's in the Mesa are run as triodes rather than pentodes and biased hotter. They add a nice midrange warmth and more compression, but I find that on their own, they lack punchiness and articulation - so they balance really well with the 6L6's.
With Trey's settings listed above, I suspect I would be pushing the 6L6's a little harder than the last time I tried them on their own - I wonder if that will give them a bit more character.
I guess the EL34's vs the 6L6's or 6V6's is almost like Alnico vs Ceramic. Ceramic to truer (more hifi, less artifacts like compression, more articulate), but something awesome happens when you use Alnico IMO. Probably why a lot of people like to mix Alnico and Ceramic in a cab (I think a C. Blue clone and a V30 clone would go great together).
That's all very interesting. I may pull my EL34's and replace with 6L6's. I remember reading in the MKIII manual that you can do this but I believe it said it may burn out the tubes quicker. I almost always play at the half power setting with my MKIII - I've only played 1 place that I needed the full power setting, and even then it probably wasn't necessary.
Thanks Heady for writing those settings down.
So with the lead channel on these setting, with no screamers on, would you say it's a fatter sound but not really an overdrive sound? I'm assuming it's a louder boost when you kick on the lead and just a touch of dirt, but not much dirt.
Lead channel on the MKIII is definitely more an overdrive sound than a fatter sound. I think I have mine set on around 4, so a little higher than Trey, and it's definitely dirty with nothing else on.
Cool. So adding a screamer or both will surely get you some serious sustain. Nice.
Totally. Having all 3 going (2 TS's + Lead channel) is pretty heavy duty judy.
Well with just one channel I use an EQ pedal for a boost which gives me a boost and a mid hump. I like it a lot. But maybe a third screamer would be an alternate "lead" channel option for me too. I almost bought a local TS9DX with the Silver mod on Craigslist for $100. It's still available actually.
No problem for the settings!
with the first volume knob near where trey has it in the above settings, the lead channel was fairly overdrive, my previous settings had a more mild overdrive. if you use the lead channel with the r2 dirty channel rather than r1 clean, it could get pretty saturated. the fatness in the lead channel comes from the geq set to a mid boost. I've been getting good results with my mxr 6 band eq as well.
I max my hump on the 400 and 800 Hz sliders. What about you?
ps, this fatness and overdrive on the lead channel is why I posted that volume pedal thread. some leads are fairly clean and less fat, so I wondered if toe down was a boost from his rhythm volume.
Quote from: Happyorange27 on January 24, 2013, 03:03:04 PM
I max my hump on the 400 and 800 Hz sliders. What about you?
I have those two sliders set between 0 and +9 db.
200 and 1.6k sliders are at unity (0db).
100 and 3.2k sliders are at -9db.
These aren't set in stone, but sounded golden last night - even with my volume maxed going into the lower-gain TS9, my leads sounded so clear it could be mistaken for clean. It worked great for something like the lead/solo from Dirt, I was also playing Allman Bro's Jessica and it sounded pretty sweet.
On my Mesa I have the 80hz slider just bellow the unity line, 240hz and 2200hz just above the unity line, 750hz about 80% of the way maxed and the 6600hz slider about 25% of the way up.
I think some of us here should make our own videos of our own rig to share with the group.
I might just do that.
Cool. I surely will.
Quote from: Happyorange27 on January 26, 2013, 01:42:26 PM
I think some of us here should make our own videos of our own rig to share with the group.
That sounds like fun!
Agreed! Awesome idea... Unfortunately I don't think I have too much to share, I'm pretty bare bones these days, just my 71 Twin, a ts9 and cs9.... I took out my BF2 and envelope filter and delays. Just use amp vibrato and reverb... I think as I get older, I find that less is more.. either that or I'm just getting lazier and more forgetful.
Since I'm stupid, its best for me to keep it simple, there's a lot less crying and law enforcement involved. Purely stated: I'm a lucky idiot.
But I'd LOVE to see what you guys have and your tricks... Its so fascinating to see what people can create with what they have. I have to say, for the short time that I've been on here, I'm blown away by some of the talent, insight, ideas and personalities I've been fortunate enough to have been introduced to. You guys are real supportive, and it drives me to get better and keep working harder to be the best Stecks I can be... I don't know if I have developed my A game yet or if I ever will, but I know its at least theoretically possible.
Keep rockin' guys!
I did it! Part one at least.
http://strangedesign.org/forums/index.php?topic=2029.0 (http://strangedesign.org/forums/index.php?topic=2029.0)
Quote from: IamWILSON on January 07, 2013, 03:09:43 PM
Quote from: Happyorange27 on January 05, 2013, 03:06:41 PM
So Trey uses Celestian G12-80 Classic lead speakers right? Anyone agree? Anyone have one or used one?
It kinda looked like that's what it was.
They're Celestion Vintage 30's. That's what I see in the video; not the "vintage 30" logo but everything that's actually visible matches up (the color, position of logos "G12" and "Celestion," etc.). And Paul told me that's what they loaded those cabs with originally.
Did anyone mention that in the video (part 1) you can see that the top speaker in his main cabinet is a Celestion G12? Sorry if it was already mentioned, I am lazy today and didn't feel like sifting through the 6 pages here. Right at the 5:01 mark.
Quote from: Happyorange27 on January 05, 2013, 03:06:41 PM
So Trey uses Celestian G12-80 Classic lead speakers right? Anyone agree? Anyone have one or used one?
I mentioned it but someone told me I was wrong.
G12, but not classic lead 80's - V30's
Definitely not 80's - look at pics of the front of the Languedoc cabs - the speakers have the smaller size dust caps.
So riddle me this: how does he get away using a 30W speaker in a 60W amp? (He has his MKIII on half power)
4 speakers (2x212) x 30w would be 120w power handling, which is the conservative ideal for a 60w amp.
However, V30's are, confusingly, not 30W, but rather 60W if Chinese or 75W if they are UK made for Mesa.
So his 2 Languedoc cabs could handle 240-300W depending on which version of the V30 he is using.
Also, his MV isn't cranked either.
Quote from: Happyorange27 on January 26, 2013, 01:42:26 PM
I think some of us here should make our own videos of our own rig to share with the group.
I'd been using a tiny solid state amp for the last 2 months and finally moved to a new place where the whole setup can be used again easily. Theres been some minor changes to the rig and a couple major ones. It should be a fun video to make. Updated the sig now
Hey the videos at the beginning of this thread are missing! Anyone have a copy?
Part 1:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nG-jXPQe1ak
Part 2:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AywJYBCxxuc
Thanks Lemon!
Ok I looked at the speaker on the video and then searched a Vintage 30 speaker and they appear to match. Also learned that a V30 has a large H magnet which is not AlNiCo, but get's pretty damn close in performance to one. That answers that question.
Quote from: Happyorange27 on April 09, 2014, 10:21:34 AM
Ok I looked at the speaker on the video and then searched a Vintage 30 speaker and they appear to match. Also learned that a V30 has a large H magnet which is not AlNiCo, but get's pretty damn close in performance to one. That answers that question.
Yes - he's always had those V30's in the 212's and Blues in the Bruno - no question. If I'm using a Celestion speaker, I pretty much only use the H-size magnets - if you feed an M-size magnet too much bass, it farts/flubs out. The H magnet is tonally most similar to the Alnico mag, but doesn't have that Alnico chime and its punchier when an Alnico would compress. I personally like the punchiness and don't think that Alnico chime is worth the price difference.
On that note - Bogner Shiva's come with a CL80, which I also like, but I'm selling mine - I prefer my Weber Blue Dog with my SFDR.