Strange Design Forums

I was reading through some past threads about amps - obviously two of Trey's favorites are the Deluxe Reverb and the MKIII Red Stripe - and it seems Fender's might be the most popular or common here, but I was wondering what everyone's favorite is and why?

I noticed there was some diversity, mostly other Fender's (Blues Junior or Princeton IIRC) and other Mesa's (Blue Stripe or Nomad), I think I saw a few D-Style fans (which has Fender-esce cleans), I also believe we have one Vox phan.?.

I love my '65 Bassman with the Eminence Red Fang, but it is certainly different than a Deluxe (or an MKIII) and I was thinking of testing out a few other amps - not necessarily to buy, but for fun.

My 1972 Fender Twin, is hands down, the best sounding amp I've ever played.  I just knew that I dug the tone with the twin, but we decided at our last show to do a Down w/ Disease sound check, and I felt my tone was very close to the Trey/Phish vibe.  I kind of don't attempt on a regular basis with my band to be trying to nail Trey's tone down, but it sounded stupendous.

Right now until i get my Traynor YCV80 I am borrowing a friends Peavey Valveking 1x12 and its awesome sounding. It takes pedals great and has a nice amount of gain. I just need more headroom with a 2 channel amp with separete EQ for both channels and would like a Master Volume.

I rehearse with my BF Princeton Reverb (w/band and in the living room)

Smaller gigs I use my Tone King Metropolitan (40w scalable) very sweet Fender tone.

Bigger Rooms I use my Carol Ann OD2r 1x12" (35w) Sick punchy amp with a lot of balls and great cleans too.

I love them all for different reasons and it just depends.

I Have a Fender Twin head + 4x12" cab that I rarely use. Just too big and boomy for most situations in our band.

Buying a 1967 Deluxe Reverb tomorrow locally off craigslist!

I like my DRRI for many different applications but I may pick up a Fender 75 for bigger rooms. It has a mid knob!

My BJ has a mid knob but it doesn't actually raise mids. It controls all frequencies.

See my signature :)
I have a modified Mesa Nomad that does a pretty good Fender, once I strip the NFB.
The Express has excellent cleans too.

My point is that I only have Mesa's so it's what I have to work with.

When it comes to "coping tone" I have never really looked at it from the "I am mimicking tone". My approach is I like this or that element of the tone... how is that achieved? I mix and match different qualities. I have a SD-1 for Jerry  OD and stacked TS9s for Trey OD. This is all on top of the killer tones inherent in the Mesas.  I figure this way I can be influenced  without copying exactly.

My favorite is my '64 deluxe. What I have been using lately is a '93 fender concert amp. While we speak of amps I just want to mention that I have a hrd with amp case for sale if anyone is interested.

Cool guys, keep em coming!

I saw there was a Mesa MKIII at the guitar center about 45 min from me and I was thinking of trying it out, though I love my Bassman - has a thicker, chunkier rock thing going on that a other Fenders and sounds pretty cool with a TS or two, but sometimes sounds a bit different than the stereotypical jam tone.

I feel like there is always one frequency that I am looking for an struggling to get, not sure how to explain it, but it is that upper midrange slap/spank that Trey seems to get regardless of his other settings. Does anyone know what I mean, or am I sounding crazy?

Quote from: Heady Jam Fan on May 24, 2012, 11:34:35 AM
I feel like there is always one frequency that I am looking for an struggling to get, not sure how to explain it, but it is that upper midrange slap/spank that Trey seems to get regardless of his other settings. Does anyone know what I mean, or am I sounding crazy?

You sure it's not the frequencies of the Whammy being left on?  I'm telling you that this is his major weapon in my opinion.  He even totes it around when he only brings 5 pedals to a gig.  It's all over Round Room and Joy.  Sorry to digress, but lately hear it everywhere that he soars and sears.

I don't know, I never really got into whammy, so you could be right, but it is across 95% of the music, so I never though of the whammy. The only time I don't notice it really is those darker, thicker leads...

This may be completely crazy, but one thing we don't talk about, that I've heard with regard to Trey is the tone knobs on his guitar.  I have mine rolled way back on my AO and I feel I'm getting a very nice sort of "Trey like" tone on straight chords.  I am not using a hollowbody or ts9's either.  It was just kind of a happy accident.  But I'm thinking, that he maybe has his tone rolled back signigicantly, especially in the late 90's tones that we all love.

Just a thought......

When I play classic rock with a solid body guitar, I usually roll the tone knob about halfway back, turn the treble all the way up on the amp and the bass completely off - it results in more upper-midrange pop - I guess the treble knob on the amp adds some upper mids and rolling back the tone knob tames the harsh top end focusing the overall tone on those mids (presence). Use the middle pickup and your close to a Garcia tone, use a les Paul and your closer to Page (they are the two musicians I can remember reading about doing that). However, I don't get a great result doing this with my Hollowbody with TS9s.

Quote from: Happyorange27 on May 23, 2012, 09:08:47 PM
My BJ has a mid knob but it doesn't actually raise mids. It controls all frequencies.

Right, I remembered you bringing that info up a few months ago. I'm curious if that's the same with all fender amps...

I gotta say, I think it's hard to pigeon-hole any one certain amp that will deliver "the" jam tone.  Just all the different genres involved in jam band music require different tones, and I'm not talking about how Phish crosses many genres.  Moreso, the difference between Trey's, Jimmy Herring, Jake Cinnenger, Warren Haynes, or even Jerry's tone are all comprised of such different guitars, amps, and speakers and serve the music in the way the artist desires.  And if they all played through the exact same gear, I bet they'd still sound very different.  I guess all I'm saying is what does it matter that its for jam music?  Bluegrass, Rock, Southern rock, Prog rock, Jazz, Funk, Soul, Indie can all be jam, but in my opinion once it's labeled as jam, it just becomes some stereotyped bullshit.  Like is the tone for the Black Key's guitarist, Jack White, or even the Avenged Sevenfold guitarists not gonna be any good for jam?  And no, I'm not exactly saying that they have great tones, or are better or worse than any jamband.

Sorry for the rant, as I'm probably out of line, but that's just kind of how I'm feeling about jambands these days. End Cynicism.

But anyway, to join in the conversation and not be a total a-hole... I think my Egnater Rebel 20 and Mesa Boogie mkIII (blue) are great for me finding my tone as far as live performance goes.  I gotta say that I've been mostly disappointed with my Blues Jr Humboldt, just as I was with the Fender Hot Rod DeVille (4x10) I sold once I got my Egnater.  Doesn't say much about modern Fender amps for my own uses.  I've been going through some soul searching/tone experimentation, and as soon as I stopped thinking in "jam band" I feel like I've found some other amazing effects pedals and amps that are really serving me well for different tones I want to attain for an album that I hope to begin recording by the end of the year.  I got myself a '67 (or maybe '68) Fender Vibro Champ (silverface/drip-edge) that I'm really enjoying, and I recently traded an extra effects pedal to a tgp'er who built a hand-wired, 5w, single ended, class A amp head that he says is "loosely modeled after a plexi, with some mods inspired from Dr. Z and BadCat mini amps."  And I personally think that it may be my favorite!  It is ridiculously loud for 5 watts - uber-chimey w/ a really tight bottom end.  Just a gain and tone knob (12ax7 and a EL84, SS rectifier as plexi's are built that way), and plugged into my 1x12 Egnater cab w/ a Celestion Elite 80 spkr.  With the gain knob at 12 o'clock, there's so much volume and the gain blows away any overdrive pedal, although I'm thinking one of these days I may have to plug one of my old tubescreamers and/or the Timmy into it to see what happens.  In the future I may even consider trying to gig with an amp switcher using the "plexi" for overdrive/gain and vibro champ for cleans.

Quote from: fulltone1989 on May 24, 2012, 01:15:09 PM

Quote from: Happyorange27 on May 23, 2012, 09:08:47 PM
My BJ has a mid knob but it doesn't actually raise mids. It controls all frequencies.

Right, I remembered you bringing that info up a few months ago. I'm curious if that's the same with all fender amps...

I just read an article about this and I meant to post it, but it suggested that is how the midrange knob on all Fenders work, thus it would be used in conjunction with other knobs; bring back the treble and bass as you bring up the mid?

I think this is why some have suggested a Bandaxal (spelling?) type of midrange control.

Quote from: IamWILSON on May 25, 2012, 04:06:23 AM
I gotta say, I think it's hard to pigeon-hole any one certain amp that will deliver "the" jam tone.  Just all the different genres involved in jam band music require different tones, and I'm not talking about how Phish crosses many genres.  Moreso, the difference between Trey's, Jimmy Herring, Jake Cinnenger, Warren Haynes, or even Jerry's tone are all comprised of such different guitars, amps, and speakers and serve the music in the way the artist desires.  And if they all played through the exact same gear, I bet they'd still sound very different.  I guess all I'm saying is what does it matter that its for jam music?  Bluegrass, Rock, Southern rock, Prog rock, Jazz, Funk, Soul, Indie can all be jam, but in my opinion once it's labeled as jam, it just becomes some stereotyped bullshit.  Like is the tone for the Black Key's guitarist, Jack White, or even the Avenged Sevenfold guitarists not gonna be any good for jam?  And no, I'm not exactly saying that they have great tones, or are better or worse than any jamband.

Sorry for the rant, as I'm probably out of line, but that's just kind of how I'm feeling about jambands these days. End Cynicism.

But anyway, to join in the conversation and not be a total a-hole... I think my Egnater Rebel 20 and Mesa Boogie mkIII (blue) are great for me finding my tone as far as live performance goes.  I gotta say that I've been mostly disappointed with my Blues Jr Humboldt, just as I was with the Fender Hot Rod DeVille (4x10) I sold once I got my Egnater.  Doesn't say much about modern Fender amps for my own uses.  I've been going through some soul searching/tone experimentation, and as soon as I stopped thinking in "jam band" I feel like I've found some other amazing effects pedals and amps that are really serving me well for different tones I want to attain for an album that I hope to begin recording by the end of the year.  I got myself a '67 (or maybe '68) Fender Vibro Champ (silverface/drip-edge) that I'm really enjoying, and I recently traded an extra effects pedal to a tgp'er who built a hand-wired, 5w, single ended, class A amp head that he says is "loosely modeled after a plexi, with some mods inspired from Dr. Z and BadCat mini amps."  And I personally think that it may be my favorite!  It is ridiculously loud for 5 watts - uber-chimey w/ a really tight bottom end.  Just a gain and tone knob (12ax7 and a EL84, SS rectifier as plexi's are built that way), and plugged into my 1x12 Egnater cab w/ a Celestion Elite 80 spkr.  With the gain knob at 12 o'clock, there's so much volume and the gain blows away any overdrive pedal, although I'm thinking one of these days I may have to plug one of my old tubescreamers and/or the Timmy into it to see what happens.  In the future I may even consider trying to gig with an amp switcher using the "plexi" for overdrive/gain and vibro champ for cleans.

I know what you mean - I probably should have prefaced the OP more as Phish or U-Melt style, some Tea Leaf... But I agree there are other types of jam such as Widespread or Moses Guest (southern rock, as well as Allman Bros) and The Dead (West Coast Blue Grass), though I would put Kang from String Cheese in the same sonic group as Trey or U-Melt though stylistically more Blue Grass influenced.

As far as other bands having the potential to cross the line into jam, I think there are components that are hard to define - obviously the drawn out improvisational aspect directly matches the description of a jam band, but I would also say there is some sort of similar style in the music that is really hard to define, especially since there can be so much variation within one Jam band let alone between them. Maybe the jam culture as well, but that might be a chicken vs egg argument (does the band fit jam culture before or after the phans start showing up).

Although, this is a Phish forum, so I was just trying to get an idea of how people inevitably influenced by Trey in some way get their favorite tone. I love my Bassman, but musicians minds always wander to different gear at least out of curiosity. I have always been a Fender fan, but there is a MKIII at a local guitar shop that I might try out. I feel like it might not satisfy my Fender needs, especially when I play classic rock or blues (the 2nd channel might, but might be too Marshall-y and the first channel only might get close enough to Fender cleans). I just sometimes feel the bassman is more beefy than a lot of Fenders and I think I am sometimes sacrificing low-mid punch to ward off the excess bass a Fender might have, as well as sometimes lacking some presence that I wish I had (which is the EQ range I was talking about above, having a slappy-like sound). I mess around with a lot of EQ changes in my rig last night and did some recordings and found myself adding low mids and presence (as well as cutting some treble and bass) after the recording, which really makes the guitar parts pop out (I think I notice these frequencies in Trey's recordings, especially in somewhat clean rhythm parts, even more than that right-smack in the midrange frequency of a TS). I am having trouble getting those frequencies to pop as much as I would like playing live.

I have also thought about adding an Effect Loop to my amp since I find it really helpful for playing classic rock on the dirty channel (I can't stand reverb into a dirty amp and delay is only sometimes acceptable). That is one of the reasons a Mesa looked cool, along with the graphic EQ. Though I suppose if I really wanted to I could add a presence knob and maybe even a low-mid control to my amp as well... Probably won't do any of this, just thinking out loud.

Quote from: Heady Jam Fan on May 25, 2012, 09:04:55 AM

Quote from: fulltone1989 on May 24, 2012, 01:15:09 PM

Quote from: Happyorange27 on May 23, 2012, 09:08:47 PM
My BJ has a mid knob but it doesn't actually raise mids. It controls all frequencies.

Right, I remembered you bringing that info up a few months ago. I'm curious if that's the same with all fender amps...

I just read an article about this and I meant to post it, but it suggested that is how the midrange knob on all Fenders work, thus it would be used in conjunction with other knobs; bring back the treble and bass as you bring up the mid?

I think this is why some have suggested a Bandaxal (spelling?) type of midrange control.

Yes Heady, the Baxandall is the way to be.  I won't bore you all again on my rants for this but in a nut shell most amps, especially Fenders (even with a mid knob) can't create a mid hump.  That is all.

I have both a DRRI and a Groove Tube Trio, I use The DRRI to mess around with, The Trio is my main pre-amp which is run through a VHT 2:90:2 power amp. Depending on where I am playing (size of the room really) depends on if I run it from the VHT to a speaker Cab, or if I go to the SPL Transducer. The Transducer is an amazing piece of equipment.

I guess the big question for me when choosing an amp for "jam" music or anything else really is, how is the clean tone? I get my base sound from the amp, but all my drive and mod and whatnot comes from a pedalboard. That being said I am mainly drawn towards amps that make a great pedal platform and may or may not have reverb.

Quote from: fulltone1989 on May 25, 2012, 10:24:59 AM
I guess the big question for me when choosing an amp for "jam" music or anything else really is, how is the clean tone? I get my base sound from the amp, but all my drive and mod and whatnot comes from a pedalboard. That being said I am mainly drawn towards amps that make a great pedal platform and may or may not have reverb.

I guess I would look for a great clean tone first, but I love a good tube amp overdrive, no pedals can really compare, which makes having an amp with reverb or an effect loop more helpful if you want reverb - sometimes I don't mind not using it.

Quote from: Heady Jam Fan on May 25, 2012, 10:59:42 AM

Quote from: fulltone1989 on May 25, 2012, 10:24:59 AM
I guess the big question for me when choosing an amp for "jam" music or anything else really is, how is the clean tone? I get my base sound from the amp, but all my drive and mod and whatnot comes from a pedalboard. That being said I am mainly drawn towards amps that make a great pedal platform and may or may not have reverb.

I guess I would look for a great clean tone first, but I love a good tube amp overdrive, no pedals can really compare, which makes having an amp with reverb or an effect loop more helpful if you want reverb - sometimes I don't mind not using it.

I can agree to that, but I like having a few different flavors of OD to choose from and buying a new dirt is cheaper than getting a new amp whenever GAS hits uncontrollably. An effects loop would be useful however!

Quote from: fulltone1989 on May 25, 2012, 01:21:02 PM

Quote from: Heady Jam Fan on May 25, 2012, 10:59:42 AM

Quote from: fulltone1989 on May 25, 2012, 10:24:59 AM
I guess the big question for me when choosing an amp for "jam" music or anything else really is, how is the clean tone? I get my base sound from the amp, but all my drive and mod and whatnot comes from a pedalboard. That being said I am mainly drawn towards amps that make a great pedal platform and may or may not have reverb.

I guess I would look for a great clean tone first, but I love a good tube amp overdrive, no pedals can really compare, which makes having an amp with reverb or an effect loop more helpful if you want reverb - sometimes I don't mind not using it.

I can agree to that, but I like having a few different flavors of OD to choose from and buying a new dirt is cheaper than getting a new amp whenever GAS hits uncontrollably. An effects loop would be useful however!

For sure, I have owned dozens of 'amp-like' overdrives and none compare to my Bassman. I got tired of fuzz cuz isn't midrangy enough.

I might try to (or get someone else to) change the line out in my Bassman to an effect loop (is that sacrilegious?) and maybe test out a graphic EQ for tightening the bass and tweaking the low mids and presence.

I don't see why not! The guy who I sold my SCXD to mods the line outs on thems to an effects loops. If a normal fella can do it on a PCB board then a handwired amp should be easier and less time-consuming - cheaper if you take it to a tech. There'd be another hole in the back on the chassis though should you decide to sell it.

Yea, I am trying to remember if there is an extra hole I am not using (chuckle), I don't have a drill at my current place. I am sure it would be an easy mod if I can find a spot after the preamp tubes. I could move the line out wire there to be a send or receive, then I just need to add the other one. I also think I could change the bright switch to a presence or low mids switch pretty easily, just a matter of matching the value of the component with the frequency I want to boost.

BWT, I remember reading about the Mods on Trey's Deluxe and thought one of them changed a cap to a different value to increase the compression in the amp? I tried to find where I read that, but for the life of me, I can't... I always feel like that little deluxe sounds so naturally compressed like it is about to explode, my amp certainly never gets that compressed.

Got my '67 Deluxe Reverb. Amp breaks up pretty early but at lower volumes it sounds fantastic. Maybe a modern speker would give it more headroom.

Quote from: picture_of_nectar on May 25, 2012, 03:24:22 PM
Got my '67 Deluxe Reverb. Amp breaks up pretty early but at lower volumes it sounds fantastic. Maybe a modern speker would give it more headroom.

I put a weber capifornia in my '64 deluxe. Very happy with it.

Heady- do yourself a favor and check make the drive and check out the mkIII.  Unfortunately, being at gutiar center it is probably over priced though.  They are really great amps and you'll get tons of great classic rock tones from it.  I've read some negative things in the web about the mkIII being too hard to dial in, or that you can't balance all 3 channels to be able to use them in a live situation, but I didn't find it hard to dial in.  And as far as balancing the channels, you just need to find the sweet spot on the volume knob (around 6 or 7), then all 3 channels are great!  Also, I believe the GEQ on them is after the gain stages, so you can EQ in an extra midhump specifically for the lead channel.  And the amp does take pedals great!  Reverb sounds good, as the range of the knob is much more usable than any fender reverb knob I've touched.  The EVM speaker is great too, you'll find you can keep the bass very present and tight at a low setting w/o sacrificing any tone (unless you're just talking about the mkIII head).  IMO the mkIII does a better job at the vintage fender shimmering tones than most newer Fender amps, and rhythm channel 2 is not overly-Marshally, yet I was able to even dial in great tones for AC/DC or Led Zeppelin, even while using a s/s/s strat! 

Quote from: IamWILSON on May 25, 2012, 04:08:01 PM
Heady- do yourself a favor and check make the drive and check out the mkIII.  Unfortunately, being at gutiar center it is probably over priced though.  They are really great amps and you'll get tons of great classic rock tones from it.  I've read some negative things in the web about the mkIII being too hard to dial in, or that you can't balance all 3 channels to be able to use them in a live situation, but I didn't find it hard to dial in.  And as far as balancing the channels, you just need to find the sweet spot on the volume knob (around 6 or 7), then all 3 channels are great!  Also, I believe the GEQ on them is after the gain stages, so you can EQ in an extra midhump specifically for the lead channel.  And the amp does take pedals great!  Reverb sounds good, as the range of the knob is much more usable than any fender reverb knob I've touched.  The EVM speaker is great too, you'll find you can keep the bass very present and tight at a low setting w/o sacrificing any tone (unless you're just talking about the mkIII head).  IMO the mkIII does a better job at the vintage fender shimmering tones than most newer Fender amps, and rhythm channel 2 is not overly-Marshally, yet I was able to even dial in great tones for AC/DC or Led Zeppelin, even while using a s/s/s strat! 

Cool, I keep going back and forth about being excited to check out that amp and like "f'it, not worth the drive," but your reply makes me think an early Saturday venture might be worth it. It is listed for like $860 IIRC and in good condition, not sure what stripe (I suspect I would prefer red or purple). It is a combo 1x12, which I prefer over other options, with an EV speaker (though I will probably get an Alnico Blue Dog or something since I doubt my Red Fang could handle it). I figured I might have to try negotiating the price a bit, if I even consider buying it - I would have to be blown away and ready to sell my Bassman honestly because of finances. I figured $860 is probably not a bad price though...

I wouldn't be surprised if I liked the clean more than Reissue Fenders - I played a DRRI a couple months ago and felt it was bland, dull and lifeless. However, it might not touch my Bassman ;) An amp is always a balance between a pure, unadulterated clean channel, which I associated with minimal circuitry, and extra circuitry to maximum flexibility for the user. I just have to suspect all of the functions on a Mesa has to sacrifice some tone or feel, but I will have to try before judging!

I have heard about trouble balancing channels too. I am trying to make a guess how I will like the lead channel - as clean as I can get it or a bit of drive. I was thinking if it as more of an EQ change than a wild lead... I have to admit, I was wondering how Trey has his set since his lead still sounds like it is mostly distortion from the TS(s).

The worst part about testing gear is that I can't really get a feel unless I bring my gear, which means I will be showing up at GC with my Artinger and probably pedalboard (or at least both TS's, a comp and maybe a delay to try out the effect loop).

PS - another one, just a head in a rack setup, just came up at another store for $599, no other info on it so far...

I use the Vox AC15 with a greenback speaker. Its the perfect size for what I use if for right now, small gigs and bedroom practice.  A mids knob would be nice on the amp. Same with an effects loop. I do enjoy that top boost flavor for nice breakup with the clean volume channel down and the boost up.

Heady, I've currently got my mkIII dialed in for my strats instead of my hollowbody guitar, but I'll tell you where my knobs are set anyway.  And there wasn't very much knob turning when I switched from the hollowbody humbucker gtr to the single coil strats.  Volume at 6, treble about 7, bass about 3, mid 4, master between 1 and 2 (this will really adjust the loudness of the amp and needs to be lower or you will go deaf), lead drive on 3, and lead master on 2.  To beef up single coils I pulled out the "pull shift" and "pull deep" knobs that correspond with the bass and master knobs.  If I was using my hollowbody/hb gtr those 2 knobs would be pushed in as they are basically there to fatten up single coil guitars.  Reverb and presence controls are in the back and hard for me to get at so just season them to taste.  Definitely tweak and try lots of different settings, but I think you'll find that all these features on the boogie really do help you to dial in your tone.  And I will go on record to state that when it comes to amps and effects, I've always thought the less knobs the better, but this amp is the one exception.  I've never felt "lost" while dialing in my tone with it!  The volume knob is the one that if you tweak around 6 or 7 you will find the sweet spot and be able to switch between the rhythm 1 and 2 channels and be able to keep the volume balanced.  Lead channel has it's own master.  And it takes tubescreamers great so don't worry about bringing them to the store, but I think you should bring your Artinger.  Also, if it has the GEQ, the EQ auto setting is the one where the GEQ only effects the lead channel, otherwise, EQ on is EQ always on and the middle setting is off.  Also, do you know if it is a simulclass amp or not?

And don't discriminate about which stripe they are, they are all great, and honestly the last ones (blue and green) have the benefit of the most updates and changes by Mesa to get the amp to where they believed it should be.  Check out this website as they have some good info about these amps:  http://homepage.mac.com/mesaboogie/dot.html

Thanks Wilson! I really appreciate it, honestly.

The lower wattage is 60 (class A) right? I am kinda worried that might be too loud, lol. I have been opening up the PPIV (post phase inverter master volume) on my Bassman the whole way and running it with the volume at around 3 (still a little bit overdrive, not much headroom) and it is sooooo loud.

Either way, I plan on trekin to try that amp tomorrow, although I already have a buzz - family dinner for the holiday weekend, and I plan on walking to the bar now... I don't get to drink too often any more and if I am hung over, all I will do tomorrow is eat pierogies.

Quote from: Heady Jam Fan on May 25, 2012, 04:52:14 PM

Quote from: IamWILSON on May 25, 2012, 04:08:01 PM
Heady- do yourself a favor and check make the drive and check out the mkIII.  Unfortunately, being at gutiar center it is probably over priced though.  They are really great amps and you'll get tons of great classic rock tones from it.  I've read some negative things in the web about the mkIII being too hard to dial in, or that you can't balance all 3 channels to be able to use them in a live situation, but I didn't find it hard to dial in.  And as far as balancing the channels, you just need to find the sweet spot on the volume knob (around 6 or 7), then all 3 channels are great!  Also, I believe the GEQ on them is after the gain stages, so you can EQ in an extra midhump specifically for the lead channel.  And the amp does take pedals great!  Reverb sounds good, as the range of the knob is much more usable than any fender reverb knob I've touched.  The EVM speaker is great too, you'll find you can keep the bass very present and tight at a low setting w/o sacrificing any tone (unless you're just talking about the mkIII head).  IMO the mkIII does a better job at the vintage fender shimmering tones than most newer Fender amps, and rhythm channel 2 is not overly-Marshally, yet I was able to even dial in great tones for AC/DC or Led Zeppelin, even while using a s/s/s strat! 

Cool, I keep going back and forth about being excited to check out that amp and like "f'it, not worth the drive," but your reply makes me think an early Saturday venture might be worth it. It is listed for like $860 IIRC and in good condition, not sure what stripe (I suspect I would prefer red or purple). It is a combo 1x12, which I prefer over other options, with an EV speaker (though I will probably get an Alnico Blue Dog or something since I doubt my Red Fang could handle it). I figured I might have to try negotiating the price a bit, if I even consider buying it - I would have to be blown away and ready to sell my Bassman honestly because of finances. I figured $860 is probably not a bad price though...

I wouldn't be surprised if I liked the clean more than Reissue Fenders - I played a DRRI a couple months ago and felt it was bland, dull and lifeless. However, it might not touch my Bassman ;) An amp is always a balance between a pure, unadulterated clean channel, which I associated with minimal circuitry, and extra circuitry to maximum flexibility for the user. I just have to suspect all of the functions on a Mesa has to sacrifice some tone or feel, but I will have to try before judging!

I have heard about trouble balancing channels too. I am trying to make a guess how I will like the lead channel - as clean as I can get it or a bit of drive. I was thinking if it as more of an EQ change than a wild lead... I have to admit, I was wondering how Trey has his set since his lead still sounds like it is mostly distortion from the TS(s).

The worst part about testing gear is that I can't really get a feel unless I bring my gear, which means I will be showing up at GC with my Artinger and probably pedalboard (or at least both TS's, a comp and maybe a delay to try out the effect loop).

PS - another one, just a head in a rack setup, just came up at another store for $599, no other info on it so far...

A rack setup would be cool...

I decided to keep my Deluxe Reverb Reissue. I dig the tones I get out of mine but there are bad apples with every new, mass-produced amp.

I'm gonna be checking out a Fender 75 on Sunday and I'm looking forward to it! Hopefully it will solve my pedal platform GAS on a budget. Its got a line out and efx loop as well which is equally appealing. Crappy drive channel is crappy though.

Yea, the deluxe is a cool amp, really in between as far as Fenders go. The one or two Deluxe RI's I tried I didn't like, but I was playing a stock strat from the shop, so who knows what I didn't like...

I know nothing about the 75, but I heard a while back that Fender responded to Mesa copying the Princeton with a Mesa-like amp, but I forget what it was.

I assume you have played a real Blackface... if not, it will blow you away (talking about the DRRI and 75).

Quote from: Heady Jam Fan on May 25, 2012, 10:08:49 PM
Thanks Wilson! I really appreciate it, honestly.

The lower wattage is 60 (class A) right? I am kinda worried that might be too loud, lol. I have been opening up the PPIV (post phase inverter master volume) on my Bassman the whole way and running it with the volume at around 3 (still a little bit overdrive, not much headroom) and it is sooooo loud.

Either way, I plan on trekin to try that amp tomorrow, although I already have a buzz - family dinner for the holiday weekend, and I plan on walking to the bar now... I don't get to drink too often any more and if I am hung over, all I will do tomorrow is eat pierogies.

Actually, the blue stripe in class A is only 15 watts, but in the manual, it explains that it is a much louder 15 watts than you hear from other amps.  When in simulclass, it's 75 watts.  And this info isn't off the web, that's straight from the Mesa MkIII manual.  Info I've found on the internet that is in line with what I just stated says that the green stripe is 25 watts in class A because pentode wiring instead of the triode wiring for the bluestripe allowed for more power.  And the older striped models then are 60/100.  So that, once again all depends on which stripe color the amp is, but like I said, don't let assumptions about the stripes get in the way of your opinion.  In fact, I think you should plug in and play and dial in some tone before you even decide to check and see which stripe color it has anyway.   

Quote from: Heady Jam Fan on May 26, 2012, 01:03:10 AM
Yea, the deluxe is a cool amp, really in between as far as Fenders go. The one or two Deluxe RI's I tried I didn't like, but I was playing a stock strat from the shop, so who knows what I didn't like...

I know nothing about the 75, but I heard a while back that Fender responded to Mesa copying the Princeton with a Mesa-like amp, but I forget what it was.

I assume you have played a real Blackface... if not, it will blow you away (talking about the DRRI and 75).

I haven't played a BF in awhile but the shop near my school had a lot of SF's which got a good workout during my 4 years there.

Based on my research it was an Ed Jahn design created to directly compete with the 80's Mesa amps (Mark II?) It's 75 watss w/ a 15 watt low power. This particular specimen I found allegedly has new Sprague caps, filters, speaker, and power tubes.

At $450 it's not really a deal per-se but if it does what I think it will (great cleans in a compact platform) then I will be very happy with it, and I can keep my DRRI. The particularly interesting part about it is that theres a mid pull boost that I am interested in trying out.

I checked out that MKIII this morning, it was a Red Stripe. I talked $50 off the price and brought it home.

I played it for about 45 min at the shop and I was nailing the tones I hear in my head... I have to decide if I wanna keep the EV speaker or switch to a Weber Blue Dog, although I don't know if an Alnico magnet will fit in it, plus the Blue Dog only goes to 100watts, while I think I will probably run the MK at 60watts (Class A) and rarely if ever with the volume up the whole way, I don't know if the Weber will work. The EVM 12L sounds pretty good, but I would like to get something more similar to the Celestion Blue if possible.

PS - I got to play some more and I love this amp! It was actually really easy to setup, especially once I figured out what all the controls are. The channels are really easy to get to sound good together with smooth switching. The 2nd channel (Marshall-esce) is actually pretty awesome for classic rock and blues and the lead channel is a bit thicker sounding than the other two. I like the lead channel set pretty clean (volume at 3 or so) for a fat, singing lead with a TS or two.

The EQ is pretty handy. I am not sure how Trey uses it, but considering he has the 'V' setting on his amp and he clearly uses a footswitch, I was thinking he might switch it in for more open, clean rhythm (less thick and midrangy). For example, if I have my volume rolled off for a clean tone with the lower gain TS, I get a thicker sound like David Bowie rather than something like Dirt or Waste. It is also my understanding Trey uses the neck pup for all his clean rhythm, so the V shaped EQ is really perfect for getting those brighter tones. However, I have been running it was the 2nd and 4th slider up just a bit which gives a little more fatness in the lower mids and a little more presence. I have the bass (1st slider) and Treble (5th slider) down just slightly from unity. I also have the deep switch pulled and the bass around 3, also the treble switch pulled and the treble at 6-7. Kinda funny - most knobs landed on the sweet spot Mesa suggests.

I think I am going to get a footswitch with 3 buttons: channel 1&2 toggle, EQ in and out, and solo (lead channel).

Congratulations Heady!!!  Since I've owned mine I've only had GAS once to purchase another large amp I would gig with ('71 Fender twin) and it was fairly easy to talk myself out of it as I realized I've got all i need in my Mesa.  And yes, Mesa's suggested settings are great and only minimal tweaking is needed.  I'm not so sure about Trey using a switch for the EQ though as the front loaded jack is only for the rhythm/lead channel.  The rhythm1/2 and EQ/REV on/off swtiches load into the back of the amp, so I don't know if anyone has spotted any cables in the back of his Mesa head that would confirm this.  And his lead drive is turned rather low (like yours and mine are) so I think he just goes to that lead channel when he wants that extra mid hump while doing leads. 

Give the EV speaker some time; I like to think Mesa got the design right and put in the speaker that will best support their creation. 

And also check out the boogie board -http://forum.grailtone.com/ (http://forum.grailtone.com/) - lot's of good info in here from tons of users.  I'm sure there's many a thread about changing speakers and the results.

Thanks Wilson!

I read somewhere that someone noticed he had 3 chords going to the amp, and I have seen the front footswitch is plugged on his amp, so the third one would only makes sense to be another footswitch in the back - the loop would 2 more switches and I can't imagine he uses the direct out.

I thing the EV is a great speaker, I just know I will keep thinking I should at least try something more similar to the blue. I suppose if I have the volume low enough I could try running into my Red Fang and see if it is worth swapping speakers. I would agree that Mesa seems dedicated to top quality while most bands seem to skip corners (and require speaker changes, output tranny changes etc on a new amp for a decent tone). The speaker seems to really complement and blend with the amp.

One interesting thing - I always thought it would be interesting to run a comp in the effect loop, so I tried that out. It worked well and quietly, except it messed with the reverb - the reverb volume changed more drastically with gain - as I rolled my volume knob back, the reverb nearly disappeared, when my volume knob was fully up, it was much louder than with the comp off. The only explanation I can think of is that the reverb is before the loop circuitry, but that doesn't make any sense to me, it ought to be after... maybe I will check a schematic.

I am very impressed and pleased with this amp - I love my Fenders, but the benefits of this amp mean my Bassman his hitting the market. Its 67lbs if tone ;) and it is a small amp! And it gets super hot, at least in the class A setting.

Awesome news Heady, glad to hear you are thrilled with your amp.  I might have to try one of these Mesa's someday, but it would really have to be something to dethrone my Twin.  Cheers.

Thank Col.!

Its worth giving it one a try if a used one pops up. Although one reason it dethroned my Bassman is cuz a Bassman has little to no headroom, the twin has plenty.

The Mesa is super versatile though, it is ballsier than a Fender and should cut through more. The lead channel provides some really cool options too.

Off the subject:
Last night I decided to play around with my pickups; I rotated them so the screw coil is inside and tilted them so the screw coil was slightly closer to the string than the slug. I haven't gotten to test it yet (it was too late last night to plug it in), but I think it will provide more balance between the pups and when coil tapping.

Quote from: Heady Jam Fan on May 28, 2012, 09:48:53 AM

Off the subject:
Last night I decided to play around with my pickups; I rotated them so the screw coil is inside and tilted them so the screw coil was slightly closer to the string than the slug. I haven't gotten to test it yet (it was too late last night to plug it in), but I think it will provide more balance between the pups and when coil tapping.

Hmmmm that's a really interesting thought. Love to hear about the results!

Will do shortly!

And going back to the original question:  I think I've found a pretty good tone with my BJ.  Feel free to listen to it here....
http://soundcloud.com/saucey-jams/may-4th-jam

Lemon - I think I have listened to that when I clicked your soundclound link in another thread - I meant to post, but it was late - great tones! Very unleashed, free-flowing style your band has, if that makes sense. You guys respond to each other well, which is one of the coolest things that can happen when jamming.

I definitely like the adjustment to the pickups that I made. The single coils are more balanced on the neck - the single is about even volume with the humbucker; on the bridge it is a little quieter, but the two humbuckers are about as loud so I think that is the best I can do. That being said, not all pickups have space/holes for two screws on each side in order to do this (nor do all pickup rings).

For the in-between setting with single coils, there is a bit less 'quack' since the pickups are closer, but I am ok with that.

As far as tone, it is a little more balanced between neck and bridge, which I think is helpful. I still think they could be a little closer tonally as I feel like I am still making a choice as to which pickup will be best balanced, if I try to compromise I still find the neck is just a bit too warm/dark and the bridge is to thin/bright. I supposed I could try tilting the pickups so the bridge pup is closer to the low strings than high strings and the opposite for the neck, but I don't want the volume to change based on which string I am using. Lemon - I know a lot of people like a JB with a 59 (or Golden 50, which is what I am using), it might be worth a try for me.

As for the amp (numbers are the number on the dial, not according to a clock):
I think I figured out all of Trey's settings (they vary a bit from pic to pic I found) and I have been bouncing back and forth between his settings and the ones I originally landed on, sometimes something in between.

Input volume: Trey seems to run his around 3-4 for some reason. Even at 6-7, the rhythm 1 channel is still clean and seems to be the sweet spot, especially if you use rhythm 2 as well, I find it has the best overdrive when the input is at 7. The biggest difference lowering the input volume seems to make across the whole amp (every channel) is that it gets brighter, so I have been keeping it at 6 rather than 7 for the time being.

Treble: Trey has the treble at around 5 and the bright pull (on the input volume) off it seems in most pics as far as I can tell tell - there was one pic I wasn't sure about, it could have been on. I find this to be pretty dark when the input volume is higher (6-7), but fine if the input volume is around 3-4 (Trey's setting). I originally had the bright pulled (on) and the treble around 6-7, which works great when the input volume is higher and using a TS>Ross. However, when I am not using the TS>Ross it is maybe a bit too bright, especially on the rhythm 2 channel and it can make the overdrive a little to crisp/gritty rather than smooth and crunchy. Since I would only use rhythm 1 for jam, it is easy enough to change the push/pull brightness going from jam to classic rock / blues.

Bass: Trey keeps his around 3, maybe a little lower. I find this to be pretty good, but the deep pull switch seems to include slightly higher frequencies (just a bit of low mid) which I think sounds better, but it is a little too much low end. If the GEQ is always on, then the Deep switch works great if you drop the 80hz slider and keep the bass knob off. However, Trey uses the auto setting on the GEQ, so it comes on automatically when the lead channel is used, thus he uses the Bass knob rather than the Deep or the GEQ. Its a compromise, but I am leaning in that direction, because:

GEQ: I really liked it always on (rather than the auto setting Trey uses) with the bass dropped nearly all the way (when using the deep switch), the 2nd slider (low-mids) up a bit, the mid at unity, presence up a bit and treble down a bit. It really makes things pop out and gives the guitar more punch. This sounds great on any channel and really matches the EQ I often put on tracks after recording. However, Trey does an Inverted V, but not spanning the entire range the sliders have, but more like 1/3. For example, some pics show the bass and treble around unity, the low mids just above, and mids and presence about 2/3-3/4 of the way up (mids just a bit higher). Other pics show the bass and treble nearly cut out completely and the mids around unity. This just depends how he has the lead master volume set. This gives a super thick, rich, smooth, sustaining lead that makes it sound like the amp is about to pop, whether your clean or very dirty. [I also saw a couple pics where the treble and bass were at unity and the mid sliders were all slightly boosted, but just about equally so]. It is a very cool setting and I think you would recognize that he uses it on occasion. However, the lead channel is pretty fat on its own and the EQ I described at the top of the paragraph also sounds great on the lead, just a little less fat. Plus the EQ is described can be cut in or out for lead or rhythm providing a few extra and interesting sounds.

Mid: Trey runs his mids between 3-5 on various pics I saw. I think that is really the sweet range and I have been bouncing around there too. I usually have it at 5, but 3 is nice for a slightly less fat sound, and the treble seems to come out slightly more. The Mesa has a bit of a mid hump by nature and so does a TS & Ross, so I suspect cutting through with the mids on 3 would not be a problem, especially since Trey runs the bass and treble pretty low; considering this running the input volume low, it probably allows him to open up the master volume a bit (IIRC, he still keeps it pretty low, but it is a LOUD amp even when only using the EL34s). Giving the master volume the flexibility to go up a bit higher is pretty nice since the amp is so loud and, as is common with most master volumes, it is hard to dial in the quietest settings (between 0-1, there is a point when the volume drops off, Mesa suggests keeping the master very low and definitely never over 5-6).

The only push/pull Trey uses is the treble shift, which adds upper mids to the lead IIRC. It is somewhat subtle, but I like it pulled. The only thing I am uncertain of is how he sets the presence - to be honest, I have been keeping mine very high (7-10). It sounds to me like Trey runs it pretty high - his treble is set low and this keeps him from sounding dark while avoiding the brightness of treble (which can sometimes make a TS sound harsh). I suspect he is not using the reverb since he loves is little Alesis rack units (adding reverb after he mics the amp I assume). I would guess he is only using a Lead footswitch since he probably wouldn't have much use for rhythm 2 (dirty channel) and he has the EQ on auto, though it is possible he switches the EQ in and out on the lead channel, which would add some nice versatility (using the rhyhtm channel for more tonally open lead, lead without EQ for smoother, fatter leads, and EQ on for super fat leads).

PS - running the presence much lower now.

Quote from: Heady Jam Fan on May 28, 2012, 01:55:17 PM
I definitely like the adjustment to the pickups that I made. The single coils are more balanced on the neck - the single is about even volume with the humbucker; on the bridge it is a little quieter, but the two humbuckers are about as loud so I think that is the best I can do. That being said, not all pickups have space/holes for two screws on each side in order to do this (nor do all pickup rings).

For the in-between setting with single coils, there is a bit less 'quack' since the pickups are closer, but I am ok with that.

As far as tone, it is a little more balanced between neck and bridge, which I think is helpful. I still think they could be a little closer tonally as I feel like I am still making a choice as to which pickup will be best balanced, if I try to compromise I still find the neck is just a bit too warm/dark and the bridge is to thin/bright. I supposed I could try tilting the pickups so the bridge pup is closer to the low strings than high strings and the opposite for the neck, but I don't want the volume to change based on which string I am using. Lemon - I know a lot of people like a JB with a 59 (or Golden 50, which is what I am using), it might be worth a try for me.

As for the amp (numbers are the number on the dial, not according to a clock):
I think I figured out all of Trey's settings (they vary a bit from pic to pic I found) and I have been bouncing back and forth between his settings and the ones I originally landed on, sometimes something in between.

Input volume: Trey seems to run his around 3-4 for some reason. Even at 6-7, the rhythm 1 channel is still clean and seems to be the sweet spot, especially if you use rhythm 2 as well, I find it has the best overdrive when the input is at 7. The biggest difference lowering the input volume seems to make across the whole amp (every channel) is that it gets brighter, so I have been keeping it at 6 rather than 7 for the time being.

Treble: Trey has the treble at around 5 and the bright pull (on the input volume) off it seems in most pics as far as I can tell tell - there was one pic I wasn't sure about, it could have been on. I find this to be pretty dark when the input volume is higher (6-7), but fine if the input volume is around 3-4 (Trey's setting). I originally had the bright pulled (on) and the treble around 6-7, which works great when the input volume is higher and using a TS>Ross. However, when I am not using the TS>Ross it is maybe a bit too bright, especially on the rhythm 2 channel and it can make the overdrive a little to crisp/gritty rather than smooth and crunchy. Since I would only use rhythm 1 for jam, it is easy enough to change the push/pull brightness going from jam to classic rock / blues.

Bass: Trey keeps his around 3, maybe a little lower. I find this to be pretty good, but the deep pull switch seems to include slightly higher frequencies (just a bit of low mid) which I think sounds better, but it is a little too much low end. If the GEQ is always on, then the Deep switch works great if you drop the 80hz slider and keep the bass knob off. However, Trey uses the auto setting on the GEQ, so it comes on automatically when the lead channel is used, thus he uses the Bass knob rather than the Deep or the GEQ. Its a compromise, but I am leaning in that direction, because:

GEQ: I really liked it always on (rather than the auto setting Trey uses) with the bass dropped nearly all the way (when using the deep switch), the 2nd slider (low-mids) up a bit, the mid at unity, presence up a bit and treble down a bit. It really makes things pop out and gives the guitar more punch. This sounds great on any channel and really matches the EQ I often put on tracks after recording. However, Trey does an Inverted V, but not spanning the entire range the sliders have, but more like 1/3. For example, some pics show the bass and treble around unity, the low mids just above, and mids and presence about 2/3-3/4 of the way up (mids just a bit higher). Other pics show the bass and treble nearly cut out completely and the mids around unity. This just depends how he has the lead master volume set. This gives a super thick, rich, smooth, sustaining lead that makes it sound like the amp is about to pop, whether your clean or very dirty. [I also saw a couple pics where the treble and bass were at unity and the mid sliders were all slightly boosted, but just about equally so]. It is a very cool setting and I think you would recognize that he uses it on occasion. However, the lead channel is pretty fat on its own and the EQ I described at the top of the paragraph also sounds great on the lead, just a little less fat. Plus the EQ is described can be cut in or out for lead or rhythm providing a few extra and interesting sounds.

Mid: Trey runs his mids between 3-5 on various pics I saw. I think that is really the sweet range and I have been bouncing around there too. I usually have it at 5, but 3 is nice for a slightly less fat sound, and the treble seems to come out slightly more. The Mesa has a bit of a mid hump by nature and so does a TS & Ross, so I suspect cutting through with the mids on 3 would not be a problem, especially since Trey runs the bass and treble pretty low; considering this running the input volume low, it probably allows him to open up the master volume a bit (IIRC, he still keeps it pretty low, but it is a LOUD amp even when only using the EL34s). Giving the master volume the flexibility to go up a bit higher is pretty nice since the amp is so loud and, as is common with most master volumes, it is hard to dial in the quietest settings (between 0-1, there is a point when the volume drops off, Mesa suggests keeping the master very low and definitely never over 5-6).

The only push/pull Trey uses is the treble shift, which adds upper mids to the lead IIRC. It is somewhat subtle, but I like it pulled. The only thing I am uncertain of is how he sets the presence - to be honest, I have been keeping mine very high (7-10). It sounds to me like Trey runs it pretty high - his treble is set low and this keeps him from sounding dark while avoiding the brightness of treble (which can sometimes make a TS sound harsh). I suspect he is not using the reverb since he loves is little Alesis rack units (adding reverb after he mics the amp I assume). I would guess he is only using a Lead footswitch since he probably wouldn't have much use for rhythm 2 (dirty channel) and he has the EQ on auto, though it is possible he switches the EQ in and out on the lead channel, which would add some nice versatility (using the rhyhtm channel for more tonally open lead, lead without EQ for smoother, fatter leads, and EQ on for super fat leads).

Awesomely comprehensive and informative. Gooooo Heady!

Thanks! I know there were a lot of questions about the Mesa settings, reviewing a lot of pics revealed a lot, but I suspect there is more variability that what I found.

It lead my to think about the mid boost built into the Deluxe. Little is known about that in particular - regarding the technical aspect in the circuitry, but also the frequency. Since Trey is able to get some of the same tones on the Deluxe, I would suspect it the mid boost is modeled after the lead channel of the Mesa. It doesn't sound as fat and smooth IMO, but probably some similarities tonally. In other words, to understand the mid boost in the Deluxe, it might help to look at the Mesa.?.

Heady I'm stoked for you and thanks for all your superb reporting.

Thanks Happy!

I figured it would be helpful for a comprehensive review of all the pics I could find of Trey's MKIII, though I am sure I have a couple things off here or there. The thing is that it is such a versatile amp, there are a handful of ways to get the same sound, so it is all about maximizing versatility, and you end up with fewer options for settings when you want all the channels to sound great (which I think you can do, though some people claim they have trouble).

BTW - Happy, how do you like your Wilson Haze Vibe? I am thinking of trading my Fulltone for a Wilson in a Wah - the Fulltone is great, but about 1/2 the time it sounds a bit thinner, or rather too bright on the top end no matter how I dial in the other settings. It can be a cool effect if you set your rig dark, but not cool if you just want to add vibe to an already balanced tone. I never know when it will sound brighter (and I use the vintage setting), it is a flip of a coin. I emailed Fulltone, not surprisingly, no reply.

I like my Wilson Vibe a bunch.  I keep the depth at about 2 to 3 oclock.  If you go past that it is a bit too much of detuning going on for me.  But at my setting it's yummy.  It's not too bright but i know what you mean. Since it's a phaser type pedal you do get some sweeps in the high frequencies.  A simple tone knob would be night right?  Anyway mine isn't a problem.  It's hard to turn the damn thing off because i really like the swirl on damn near everything.
Also it's fun to play with the rate with the rubber knob using the old foot. ;D

Yea, I hear that. The Fulltone was my first real vibe and I love it - I agree, it is hard to turn off, that subtle swirl just keeps a cool motion. On tracks where Trey uses the vibe, it is usually very subtle, but just adds a nice flavor. I always read people complaining about how dark a vibe can be, so I was surprised that it was too bright for me. I always thought a tone knob would be great, I find I am often looking for that swirl motion in modulation and it is hard to find without tonal sacrifice sometimes.

I also ride the speed, so I really like the Wah enclosure - I was big on foot-adjustable knobs for a while (rubber MXR ones and kickdisks), but a wah expression is much easier, at least for balance:accuracy.

yeah the wah version should be rad.

Heady, did you fiddle with the trim pot on the MDV2? I have a MDV and although it controls the blub brightness (read:throb) it may tweak the tone of the unit as well.

Yea, I have, I think I liked the stock setting most actually (I have a little more throb dialed in currently though). It changes the low-end/throb, but doesn't dial out the bright top end, seems kinda scooped. I tried different power supplies (including the Fulltone one), different pedal orders, no other pedals... there is no rhyme or reason as far as I can tell, but just over half the time it is bright, the rest of the time it is tonally transparent and awesome.

Note: I just got a Wilson in a Wah for $165, mint condition. The Fulltone will find a new home...

Quote from: Heady Jam Fan on May 29, 2012, 12:39:02 PM
Note: I just got a Wilson in a Wah for $165, mint condition. The Fulltone will find a new home...

Tight!

Yessir - after talking a bit with the guy I got it from, turns out he is a Phish head as well, has a cover band called A Live One.

I wanted to just be happy with the Fulltone and ignore the tonal change, but I can't! Someday, though, I still believe my rig will be perfect.

Quote from: Heady Jam Fan on May 29, 2012, 04:19:40 PM
Yessir - after talking a bit with the guy I got it from, turns out he is a Phish head as well, has a cover band called A Live One.

I wanted to just be happy with the Fulltone and ignore the tonal change, but I can't! Someday, though, I still believe my rig will be perfect.

Was his name Josh!?! I bought my Whammy II from the same guy I think.

Anyways, sorry to hear the full tone didn't work for you but good luck with the Wilson.

Lol, yea - small world!

I think Fulltone makes nice stuff, I've owned a few and tried a few others. I just can't figure out why it is so bright sometimes - today was really bad for whatever reason. Hoping the Wilson is a keeper, as much fun as trying new gear is, I really want to settle down with some stuff and just play.

Quote from: Heady Jam Fan on May 29, 2012, 09:22:11 PM
Lol, yea - small world!

I think Fulltone makes nice stuff, I've owned a few and tried a few others. I just can't figure out why it is so bright sometimes - today was really bad for whatever reason. Hoping the Wilson is a keeper, as much fun as trying new gear is, I really want to settle down with some stuff and just play.

Yeah, that is a strange issue. My MDV (small box no treadle) is a bit bright but the ES-339 is a darker-sounding guitar so it balances out. I might try the MJM 60's Vibe if I can find it for a good price. I know what you mean though about the neverending gear quest, hopefull after this weekend I will be done for awhile, or at least another week or two :)

All i have to say is Dunlop Rotovibe!!!

Quote from: Brian27 on May 30, 2012, 06:54:05 PM
All i have to say is Dunlop Rotovibe!!!

I believe that is a pedal, not an amp. Nice stuff though!

Quote from: IamWILSON on May 26, 2012, 02:37:05 AM

Quote from: Heady Jam Fan on May 25, 2012, 10:08:49 PM
Thanks Wilson! I really appreciate it, honestly.

The lower wattage is 60 (class A) right? I am kinda worried that might be too loud, lol. I have been opening up the PPIV (post phase inverter master volume) on my Bassman the whole way and running it with the volume at around 3 (still a little bit overdrive, not much headroom) and it is sooooo loud.

Either way, I plan on trekin to try that amp tomorrow, although I already have a buzz - family dinner for the holiday weekend, and I plan on walking to the bar now... I don't get to drink too often any more and if I am hung over, all I will do tomorrow is eat pierogies.

Actually, the blue stripe in class A is only 15 watts, but in the manual, it explains that it is a much louder 15 watts than you hear from other amps.  When in simulclass, it's 75 watts.  And this info isn't off the web, that's straight from the Mesa MkIII manual.  Info I've found on the internet that is in line with what I just stated says that the green stripe is 25 watts in class A because pentode wiring instead of the triode wiring for the bluestripe allowed for more power.  And the older striped models then are 60/100.  So that, once again all depends on which stripe color the amp is, but like I said, don't let assumptions about the stripes get in the way of your opinion.  In fact, I think you should plug in and play and dial in some tone before you even decide to check and see which stripe color it has anyway.   

Hey, just reading about this stuff and the info on the net is pretty inconsistent. I emailed Mesa over the weekend and haven't heard back yet. It seems that the 60/100 switch causes a lot of confusion because a lot of amps have that switch and don't put out either of those wattages. My understanding is only Mesa with 4 6L6 tubes put out 100watts, 2 6L6s would be 60watts - so I suppose an amp that can drop 2 of 4 6L6s could switch between those amounts of power (watts). However, that would not be simul-class. The Simul-Class amps with 2 6L6s and 2 EL34s max at 75watts, dropping the 2 6L6s decreases the power by 60watts to 15 (loud) watts. This could be different with later models, maybe they run the EL34s in pentode rather than triode...

So if I were to try another speaker, it would have to handle a very loud 15watts in "class a" but I would not risk blowing out a Celestion Blue. The guys at Avatar speakers/cabs sell Celestions at a good price and suggested a Gold, which handles 50watts. I think that ought to be fine for the 15watt setting I would hope, especially with Celestions conservative power ratings. However, it would be risky on the 75watt setting if you turn it up too loud. A Weber Alnico Blue Dog 75 or 100watt would probably be the safest match if you intend to play a loud outdoor gig with no FOH or PA, but I would suspect that they start to differ tonally (get warmer) compared to the alleged Celestion Blue that Trey uses. On that note, it seems that Trey might use Celestion Blues, Weber 50w Alnico Blue Dogs w/ Light Dope, or some sort of Celestion G12s.

I like the EVM so I will see if GAS for a more Phish-Accurate speaker passes (probably won't). I am pretty sure I could sell a Gold at or near the price it would cost from Avatar. On the other hand, the guys at Weber are awesome and I would love to give them my business. The EVM is 200watts and my biggest fear would be blowing an expensive speaker that I am hoping will be an upgrade, but I do like that Alnico compression, the difficulty is that is seems to shine when you really match the amps output to the speakers sweet spot and I would definitely doubt I could do that in various settings.

Just some food for thought.

Quote from: fulltone1989 on May 31, 2012, 11:32:48 AM

Quote from: Brian27 on May 30, 2012, 06:54:05 PM
All i have to say is Dunlop Rotovibe!!!

I believe that is a pedal, not an amp. Nice stuff though!

I know that Fulltone. Someone had mentioned Vibe pedals before me and i was just stating my liking for the Rotovibe. Sorry to be off the subject.

Quote from: Brian27 on June 01, 2012, 06:49:09 AM

Quote from: fulltone1989 on May 31, 2012, 11:32:48 AM

Quote from: Brian27 on May 30, 2012, 06:54:05 PM
All i have to say is Dunlop Rotovibe!!!

I believe that is a pedal, not an amp. Nice stuff though!

I know that Fulltone. Someone had mentioned Vibe pedals before me and i was just stating my liking for the Rotovibe. Sorry to be off the subject.

Didn't mean to be condescending... What's the difference though? Is theRotovibe more of a Leslie Sim?

The Rotovibe comes closer to sounding like a leslie sim then a lot of other vibe units. To me the Rotovibe sounds more Phasey then pulsating which i like. Although it has more of a leslie sound i think it is a great Vibe unit.

So I had been searching for what speaker would be best for my amp; I like the compression of Alnico, but it is pricier, especially since you want to match the wattage/power handling to the loudest you will use the amp (so you can get there without blowing the speaker when you need to), but then you aren't hitting the sweet spot to get the alnico singing....

I didn't want to put my Red Fang in the MKIII cuz I thought I was getting cone cry when using it in my Bassman, which is a lot quieter even at 50watts than the MKIII at 15watts, so I was scared it would burst. I decided to try it anyway and played for a few hours, flipped back and forth between speakers, got the volume pretty high on the amp and the Red Fang performed beautifully.

I realized I could recreate the 'cone cry' with in multiple scenarios; different guitars, different amps, different speakers, even some different effects. I was tightening and loosening screws on my speakers, etc - frustrating stuff! I was getting the cone cry to various decrease with pretty much different rigs!

I ended up realizing it was mostly happening if full-out extremely midrangy leads - which makes sense - but I realized I use my Strymon El Cap in those settings! I hadn't realized that separate factor and it was making a mild, negligible nasty harmonic nearly as loud as the intended note. So I ended up adjusting my pickups (height - in part because I am still tweaking them for better balance, but they are lower and more balanced than ever now), the tone of the MKIII and balance of R1 to lead and backing off the El Cap a bit - then walk down the street to meet my folks for dinner - and when I came back, no terrible Cone Cry even when I was pushing for it.

I had even been able to get those ghost notes while using the EVM12L, which was very frustrating at first - it felt like an infection that was spreading across my gear, lol - but made me realize it wasn't just the Red Fang crapping out. I don't mean this post as a rant or complaint, but in case someone else experiences this, I think this could help - not necessarily that "cone cry doesn't come from the speaker," but rather a few minor adjustments can relieve a lot of distress! It is interesting how such a drastic phenomena arises out of minute circumstances in multiples nodes of a (musical) system - and how small changes can fix them - like a butterfly flapping its wings in japan flings Dorothy outta Kansas - complexity sciences, and the trend in the West is so reductionist and patholigizing rather than holistic!

Anyway - the Red Fang was sweet - I got my pickups sounding more balanced than ever, now I was finally comfortable using the bridge for brighter rhythm and the neck for thicker stuff, changing on the fly - and (I described in another post) I was pretty happy with my vibe settings today! All in all not bad, lot of tweaking.

Quote from: Heady Jam Fan on June 01, 2012, 11:09:21 PM
It is interesting how such a drastic phenomena arises out of minute circumstances in multiples nodes of a (musical) system - and how small changes can fix them - like a butterfly flapping its wings in japan flings Dorothy outta Kansas - complexity sciences, and the trend in the West is so reductionist and patholigizing rather than holistic!

I applaud you for teetering on the cusp of sanity with whatever it is you're trying to communicate in the above.

There is such a thing as playing through so-called cone cry. You just play through it until it goes away. Don't ask me how this happens but the phenomenon is real nonetheless.

Quote from: cactuskeeb on June 01, 2012, 11:49:59 PM

Quote from: Heady Jam Fan on June 01, 2012, 11:09:21 PM
It is interesting how such a drastic phenomena arises out of minute circumstances in multiples nodes of a (musical) system - and how small changes can fix them - like a butterfly flapping its wings in japan flings Dorothy outta Kansas - complexity sciences, and the trend in the West is so reductionist and patholigizing rather than holistic!

I applaud you for teetering on the cusp of sanity with whatever it is you're trying to communicate in the above.

There is such a thing as playing through so-called cone cry. You just play through it until it goes away. Don't ask me how this happens but the phenomenon is real nonetheless.

Haha, not sure what I expected as a response to that, but yes, fairly insane. I am a doctoral student of psychology too - scary?

Pretty simple explanation for that, but a lot of reading/media for it to make sense; phenomonological philosophy>cogntive psychology>butterfly effect>Wizard of Oz>Complexity Science (which I learned about studying music therapy)>Medical (among other) trends in the west vs. east - meaning we think we can reduce a problem to one source (ie Dr. House would say its ludicrous to think multiple symptoms come from multiple disorders, we are just missing the underlying pathology), but sometime it is small percentages of a problem from multiple sources (butterfly flapping its wings halfway around the world makes a small change in the global weather - not noticeable on its own, mix it with other things and there's a hurricane). We certainly be believe this if we upgrade our 'decent' patch cables to Lavas; small changes in multiple places make a big difference in the end. I'm drunk.

Maybe your right about playing through it, I've no clue, all I know is I was making a lot of changes before I went to dinner, when I got back it wasn't bad enough to stop me from playing. The speaker is plenty broken in, so thats not it.

Quote from: Heady Jam Fan on June 02, 2012, 01:57:30 AM

Quote from: cactuskeeb on June 01, 2012, 11:49:59 PM

Quote from: Heady Jam Fan on June 01, 2012, 11:09:21 PM
It is interesting how such a drastic phenomena arises out of minute circumstances in multiples nodes of a (musical) system - and how small changes can fix them - like a butterfly flapping its wings in japan flings Dorothy outta Kansas - complexity sciences, and the trend in the West is so reductionist and patholigizing rather than holistic!

I applaud you for teetering on the cusp of sanity with whatever it is you're trying to communicate in the above.

There is such a thing as playing through so-called cone cry. You just play through it until it goes away. Don't ask me how this happens but the phenomenon is real nonetheless.

Haha, not sure what I expected as a response to that, but yes, fairly insane. I am a doctoral student of psychology too - scary?

Pretty simple explanation for that, but a lot of reading/media for it to make sense; phenomonological philosophy>cogntive psychology>butterfly effect>Wizard of Oz>Complexity Science (which I learned about studying music therapy)>Medical (among other) trends in the west vs. east - meaning we think we can reduce a problem to one source (ie Dr. House would say its ludicrous to think multiple symptoms come from multiple disorders, we are just missing the underlying pathology), but sometime it is small percentages of a problem from multiple sources (butterfly flapping its wings halfway around the world makes a small change in the global weather - not noticeable on its own, mix it with other things and there's a hurricane). We certainly be believe this if we upgrade our 'decent' patch cables to Lavas; small changes in multiple places make a big difference in the end. I'm drunk.

Maybe your right about playing through it, I've no clue, all I know is I was making a lot of changes before I went to dinner, when I got back it wasn't bad enough to stop me from playing. The speaker is plenty broken in, so thats not it.

I've always read each episode of House as being a dramatization of the ideal efficaciousness of differential diagnosis.

I laughed when you said you were drunk Heady!

Quote from: cactuskeeb on June 02, 2012, 02:18:14 AM

Quote from: Heady Jam Fan on June 02, 2012, 01:57:30 AM

Quote from: cactuskeeb on June 01, 2012, 11:49:59 PM

Quote from: Heady Jam Fan on June 01, 2012, 11:09:21 PM
It is interesting how such a drastic phenomena arises out of minute circumstances in multiples nodes of a (musical) system - and how small changes can fix them - like a butterfly flapping its wings in japan flings Dorothy outta Kansas - complexity sciences, and the trend in the West is so reductionist and patholigizing rather than holistic!

I applaud you for teetering on the cusp of sanity with whatever it is you're trying to communicate in the above.

There is such a thing as playing through so-called cone cry. You just play through it until it goes away. Don't ask me how this happens but the phenomenon is real nonetheless.

Haha, not sure what I expected as a response to that, but yes, fairly insane. I am a doctoral student of psychology too - scary?

Pretty simple explanation for that, but a lot of reading/media for it to make sense; phenomonological philosophy>cogntive psychology>butterfly effect>Wizard of Oz>Complexity Science (which I learned about studying music therapy)>Medical (among other) trends in the west vs. east - meaning we think we can reduce a problem to one source (ie Dr. House would say its ludicrous to think multiple symptoms come from multiple disorders, we are just missing the underlying pathology), but sometime it is small percentages of a problem from multiple sources (butterfly flapping its wings halfway around the world makes a small change in the global weather - not noticeable on its own, mix it with other things and there's a hurricane). We certainly be believe this if we upgrade our 'decent' patch cables to Lavas; small changes in multiple places make a big difference in the end. I'm drunk.

Maybe your right about playing through it, I've no clue, all I know is I was making a lot of changes before I went to dinner, when I got back it wasn't bad enough to stop me from playing. The speaker is plenty broken in, so thats not it.

I've always read each episode of House as being a dramatization of the ideal efficaciousness of differential diagnosis.

Lol, Yessir - differential in order to get at a reductionist pathology ;) Too much of a coincidence to believe a patient (or guitar rig) has two things wrong with it, it must have only one source for the problems.

Quote from: Happyorange27 on June 02, 2012, 08:54:35 AM
I laughed when you said you were drunk Heady!

I wasn't planning on it as I have a few things to do today (including a Crawfish Boil a couple blocks away), but had some wine with dinner and enjoyed playing music so much, at some point I just realized I had left my house and was walking to the bar!

I switched back to the EVM12L last night. I loved the Red Fang on the clean channel and the lead channel (set clean), but occasionally still got cone cry that I could not play through or dial out. I like the EVM more on the rhythm channel - the Red Fang made the upper-mids a bit too harsh and gritty. If I were only playing Jam, I would probably go with a Weber 100 watt, but I assume it will have the same effect on the upper mids on the R2 channel as the Red Fang (I found the Weber 50w to be brighter than the Red Fang, though it wasn't fully broken in) and I use that channel for classic rock type stuff.

Additionally, I like the wider (3in?) cone on the EVM, less directional treble, as well as the fact that it has 3db less sensitivity (100 vs 103), which is quite noticeable, especially since it is a loud amp. I miss the Alnico, but it seems rare that I am playing at the perfect volume to sit in the Alnico's sweet spot anyway.

Another food-for-thought, um, thought: I read an interesting thread on GrailTone about using a Weber Copper Cap Module to replace the solid state rectifier and give the amp more of a tube-rectified sound (sure it different, the voltage drop is linear rather than exponential or whatever). I probably won't do this, but thought it was interesting. I assume this would also result in a sweet spot in the volume for a bit more sag and compression and that sweet spot is likely louder than playing at home or a small jam - at volumes higher than that I find I get enough compression from the Mesa.