Struggling to record with vintage condenser (AKG 414 B-ULS)

[cactuskeeb]

Is anyone at all experienced or knowledgable regarding the use of these crazy-sensitive  condenser microphones to record amps set to stage/gig volume? I've been playing around with these things for years and yet still cannot seem to figure them out. It's a constant struggle when recording, even at lower amp volume levels. I strive to duplicate what Paul says he did with Trey's deluxe; that is, to place one "about" four inches from the grill and the other twice that distance. However, sometimes I'm just impatient or feeling skeptical of Paul's method so, instead, I use one mic that I drop closer to 2 inches from the grillcloth. Either way, the resultant recordings are disappointing. The fidelity is *way* off. The amp sounds processed. There's also this bafflingly intermittent, unmusical distortion, almost like a crackling sound that sort of eats the actual notes. I don't hear the amp making the noise, and I don't know if this is the mic or what.

I'm able to achieve satisfactory results when I use the same mics and preamp to record voice and/or unplugged/acoustic (admittedly, it's been a while since I've done the later).

Here's where I'm kind of hopelessly lost: I know very little about mics, how they work, etc. I don't even know how to tell if one or both of my 414's are broken. Specifically:

I don't know the "correct" polar pattern to use in the aforementioned recording situation (I'm fairly certain it's either cardioid or hypercardioid, and not the other two options: omnidirectional and figure-eight). 

Hz setting (I haven't a clue) - the choices are 0, 75, or 150.

...and whether I should use the dB cut switch on the mic itself, or the one on my mic preamp, or both (seems like you gotta have at least one good -20 dB cut going on, otherwise, even on the lowest gain/volume setting on the mic preamp, it's readily apparent there's mad clipping going on, either from the blinking red led on the mic preamp itself, or the levels on the recording software monitor are showing red).

[Happyorange27]

Are you utilizing phantom power? I'm sure that's imperative with condenser mics. Maybe it's on your preamp. I actually have never used a condenser mic myself so I'm not going to be much help.
Hopefully someone else will chime in to help you otherwise you should start doing some research on these type of microphones.
Not that it's any help to you but I used my cardioid microphones using Paul's technique and I got very satisfactory results so I would say that his method is very valid.
If you can round up two of any microphone try to use Paul's technique and I'm sure you'll be satisfied.

[the_great_lemon]

I use a Perception 120 to record drums and guitars sometimes.  I haven't used it live however.  If anything is particularly loud I'll throw on the -20db pad.

If you run a search of microphone polar patterns on google, there are a couple good sources that could help.

[cactuskeeb]

Are you utilizing phantom power? I'm sure that's imperative with condenser mics. Maybe it's on your preamp. I actually have never used a condenser mic myself so I'm not going to be much help.
Hopefully someone else will chime in to help you otherwise you should start doing some research on these type of microphones.
Not that it's any help to you but I used my cardioid microphones using Paul's technique and I got very satisfactory results so I would say that his method is very valid.
If you can round up two of any microphone try to use Paul's technique and I'm sure you'll be satisfied.

Yeah, I'm using phantom power. A mic preamp without a +48V switch for each channel is pretty rare. These are superior, vintage microphones; I'd like to figure out how to use them properly in front of a cranked amp.

I know Paul's method is valid; we can hear it on hundreds of phish recordings. I just wish I had asked him more specific questions about his settings, when I had the chance.

[Heady Jam Fan]

Im also no mic expert, but your description sounds like something is distorting. I can't remember much about mics from when I studied recording in school about 10 years ago, but hopefully it isn't the ribbon, basically a fine foil that pics up vibrations and turns it into electrical signal. Mics can go bad and its not to hard to throw them off; you really don't want to jostle a mic at all, even tapping a mic to see if it is on is a bad idea, so, unfortunately, I wouldn't be too surprised if the ribbon is worn or damaged on two vintage mics, but that is just one possibility.

Before listening to my above thoughts, I would set up one mic and really just take a lot of time to get the best levels you can. I spend probably 20+ minutes every time I record trying to get the best mic levels - not sure about your rig, but I know mine has a number of places that can overdrive; my interface, mixer or computer. Between all those, I probably have 5-10 volume controls that I have to nudge back and forth to get the best levels all the way through - I keep the volume as loud as I can at every point, but making sure it isn't distorting, just slightly below the point when the peak or clip led pops on. And I do all this playing as loud as my rig might get during the recording - I usually redo it between lead and rhythm tracks since leads will be a bit louder and I still want my rhythm to be just below clipping. You could start with all the volumes low and nudge them up one by one, little by little and see if you can get a quiet signal without any distortion, then you might be certain it isn't the mic.

[cactuskeeb]

Im also no mic expert, but your description sounds like something is distorting. I can't remember much about mics from when I studied recording in school about 10 years ago, but hopefully it isn't the ribbon, basically a fine foil that pics up vibrations and turns it into electrical signal. Mics can go bad and its not to hard to throw them off; you really don't want to jostle a mic at all, even tapping a mic to see if it is on is a bad idea, so, unfortunately, I wouldn't be too surprised if the ribbon is worn or damaged on two vintage mics, but that is just one possibility.

Before listening to my above thoughts, I would set up one mic and really just take a lot of time to get the best levels you can. I spend probably 20+ minutes every time I record trying to get the best mic levels - not sure about your rig, but I know mine has a number of places that can overdrive; my interface, mixer or computer. Between all those, I probably have 5-10 volume controls that I have to nudge back and forth to get the best levels all the way through - I keep the volume as loud as I can at every point, but making sure it isn't distorting, just slightly below the point when the peak or clip led pops on. And I do all this playing as loud as my rig might get during the recording - I usually redo it between lead and rhythm tracks since leads will be a bit louder and I still want my rhythm to be just below clipping. You could start with all the volumes low and nudge them up one by one, little by little and see if you can get a quiet signal without any distortion, then you might be certain it isn't the mic.

Yeah, it typically takes me at least 15 minutes to set up two mics and get the levels straight. I don't boost or cut volume on the computer (from within the software), as, at least in my mind, it's a digital boost/cut and thus undesirable. Also, I don't have an interface or a mixer; I run a cable -- dual-XLR to stereo mini-plug -- directly from the preamp to the computer. That being said, what I do to set levels resembles your process. I start with the preamp set to zero and slowly turn it up until the software monitor levels are as high as they can go without clipping. I have to implement a -20dB either on the mic itself (it has this option) or on the preamp; otherwise, it clips on the second clockwise turn (my preamp gain knob is not a smooth dial, it locks into evenly-spaced increments -- "clicks," if you will -- as you turn it up or down). The problem is, I hear distortion even when both the preamp and software monitor are *not* showing red (clipping). At this point, I need to spend an afternoon really listening to each mic individually, which is something I have yet to do at all.