Hey all! First time poster here, and I just thought I would share my rig, and see if you guys had any pointers to keep in the right direction. Ive been into Garcia stuff for a while, and have made a pretty nice Jerry rig, but am moving more in the direction of Trey's tone, along with my own. Im using an American strat, with Dimarzio SDS-1s, into a Blackfaced 72 Twin Reverb. I have a few speaker set ups, a 2x12 with a JBL K120 and an Emi Red, White, and Blue, a 4x12 Marshall with stock Celestions, and I have another Red White and Blue along with an original fender Utah speaker in the twin. Right now, the speakers in the twin seem to work best for Trey tone. I know im lacking in some of the really key points of Trey's tone (compressor, hollowbody, etc...), but was wondering if you guys could give me some tips on where to go from here. Im a huge fan of Trey's mid 90s tone (Maple/Padauk Doc, Clifford Ball specifically). I have my Twin for sale now to fund a Mesa Mark III also.
Its good to be here! ;D
Awesome and welcome!
The Twin sounds like its awesome - my favorite Fender! But the MKIII is kick ass! It can sound like a Twin and a lot more, plus they are ridiculously well priced. I suggest getting a head, otherwise it is too heavy. I really like the Red Stripe, which is what Trey uses, but other stripes will work too.
I posted Trey's most recent MKIII settings on another thread and I am using those settings right now on mine - it is spot on running into a 212 with V30's. However, rather than using the lead channel for leads, I just use the GEQ with the bass really low, the treble dropped a bit and the three mid sliders jacked almost all the way up. This way, I avoid the sound cutting out when switching channels, needing to use the Fx Loop (the loop works great, but just requires more wires) because the lead channel is dirty, plus I like the clarity of keeping the amp clean especially when I want to do clean leads.
I would start by getting pretty much any TS9 with a JRC4558D chip. Someone said all the current reissue TS9's have the 4558D chip, but I don't know for sure. The 30th Anniversary does, so does the Maxon OD9. I don't like any clones as much as those. The Analogman mods are all good too, but vintage ones from the early 80's are the best. Most of the time I only use one, a second might come in handy down the road.
My two favorite Ross compressor clones are the Analogman and Retro Sonic. I like those more than the Barber and Keeley, but the Barber was also good. The Keeley had trouble staying at unity gain. On that note, look for a Black Ross compressor! I just got one for $140 a few months ago.
I would also look for a hollowbody with PAF style pickups. Seymour Duncan 59's or Schaller Golden 50's are cheap PAFs that Trey has/does use if you decide to upgrade - if you go all out, I really like the Lollar Imperials. If you do upgrade pickups, get the 4 conductor lead versions in case you want to do the crazy Languedoc wiring. 90% of the time I just use the humbuckers, but single coil sounds really cool sometimes, though noisier. There are tons of good options, but if you pick a price range, people can make suggestions - IMO any decent hollow is a good start.
Thats all you need for the core tone!
For bells n whistles, a Fulltone MDV2 is a great Vibe and the Black Cat has to be a good choice for copping Treys tone. I decided to go with a Phase 45 after trying a few Univibes. Also, get an Alesis Microverb I while they are still around - only $50!
I also tossed 2 Boss FS5L footswitches on my board - one to control the EQ on my Mesa and one to control my Microverb. I have them right next to each other so I can stomp both to jump right into leads.
Well, thats my quick run down/suggests, which I suppose is just a longer version of my signature (see below)! The rest is just settings you can pick up from pictures!
PS - almost forgot, people also like Tremolo and Loop pedals, but I just haven't used either.
Thanks for the advice! I neglected to add the effects im using now lol ::) Im going through a Brown modded Ts9, a Maxon OD808, RMC 3, original Microverb, DM2000 (just got it, totally kick ass), DOD 250+ (original), Phase 100, Mutron 3+, Boss Octave, Boomerang looper and then into my Twin. Everything except the wah, Ts9 and OD808 are switched with a GCX. I love the modded ts9. I was in love when I first played through it, by far the best distortion ive used. The next thing on the list is a compressor or speakers.
I also have a broken Boss DS-1 that a friend gave me that im thinking of sending out to get the Silver mod done to it.
As far as guitar, I think im staying with what I have. I don't see the funds being there to get a new one, but im wiring an Ibanez MC300 Garcia style, so I may through a 59 in the bridge for Trey.
oh wow, yea, listing the effects really changes things! I kinda feel silly for posting all that, lol.
Boss DS or SD?
I think the compressor is important - it adds to the sound and really smooths things out, but even more than that, it is a utility. It makes everything simple - I can't imagine how Trey using his volume knob to go from clean to dirty without huge changes in volume when he dropped the comp off his rig. Even though I think the speakers will help more getting close to his tone, I would start here.
Having said that, I think the amp and speakers play the biggest role in tone. I would go with real Celestion V30s. I've been testing a lot of speakers and really really like the real thing - I have another used one coming in the mail tomorrow (hopefully) for $75 shipped. WGS makes cheap clones, but the clips don't really sound like V30s to me and I've seen review that say the have a bit of a Greenback sound in them (I had some Celestion G12H 55's until recently and they sounded awesome, but much more Hendrix than Trey). I also had an Eminence Governor I got from a local amp builder for $30, but it was like a caricature of a V30 - I like Eminence and it was a good speaker, but the upper mids really stood out.
I would go with the compressor first and wait for a pair of V30's to pop up used - people are always selling some from Marshall cabs or just by themselves on Craigslist. Or get a pair of Avatar Hellatone 60's if you can't wait - they are pre-worn in V30's relabled and discounted! PS - what Celestions are in your Marshall! Forgot you mentioned that, probably V30's, G12Ms, G12Hs or G12-65s...
You can coax a good Trey tone out of the Twin, but I was a Fender fan for my entire life until I tried my first MKIII and I love the fat cleans. Trey's stuff with the Mesa just sounds better to me, the Deluxe does have some better attributes (dynamics, reverb), but ultimately sounds thin in comparison. Not to mention, the speakers of choice with a Twin would be Celestion Golds which as super pricey ;). I've tried Weber, WGS and Eminence clones - the WGS is best IMO, Eminence was also great, and the Weber can be ceramic and cheaper. When I used a Fender for Trey, I just stuck a mid-boosted EQ pedal after my compressor.
Quote from: Heady Jam Fan on April 18, 2013, 10:15:46 PM
I think the compressor is important - it adds to the sound and really smooths things out, but even more than that, it is a utility. It makes everything simple - I can't imagine how Trey using his volume knob to go from clean to dirty without huge changes in volume when he dropped the comp off his rig. Even though I think the speakers will help more getting close to his tone, I would start here.
I would strongly agree with that. Speakers are incredibly important to that Trey tone, but I feel as if the compressor is essential. The only way to achieve that sustain (in my experience) is with a dirt pedal pushing a compressor. For a long time I didn't use one and thought I was pretty close to the tone, but once I plugged in the compressor the sound was more even, and that sustain was there. With that said, YMMV.
Either way, you can't go wrong upgrading your rig in either respect. Good luck!
I'm sure a lot of you have heard Paul Murin play. He is "trey" in Phix - the amazing Phish cover band. He nails Treys tone with a solid body Les Paul. I think the compressed OD is paramount.
Thanks for the input guys! I think I may be trading my twin plus some cash for a Mark 3 Red stripe, so hopefully that will soon be on the way! But for the time being, how should I set the EQ on my twin for a good trey tone? Right now I have the mids on 10, the highs on 8 or 9, and the lows on 6.
Haven't played a Twin for a while, but usually I turn the treble and bass all the way down or nearly all the way down on a Fender, especially a Blackface Fender when playing jam
When I use a Fender for classic rock, I usually still leave the bass all or nearly all the way down and treble maxed, but I roll my guitar's tone knob about halfway back.
Just curious how much your valuing each amp for? Seems MKIII combo's go for about $850 unless they have some sort of fancy wood for the cab, but I don't know how much a Blackfaced Silverface Twin would go for - yours is pretty early (72), I would expect it could fetch about $1k?
IIRC I traded a RI Twin for a Mark III even about 4 years ago, although prices could've changed.. I don't remember the stripe I didn't have it long.
Well the Mark 3 im looking at is listed for $900, which may be on the high end, but not bad. If my twin was JUST blackfaced, then I would say I could sell it for about $1000, but it also has a preamp tap, so for people who just want to buy a 72 Twin, it brings the price down a bit. And the Mesa is a Red Stripe, which seems to be a more desirable stripe, especially since its the one Trey has.
Quote from: Deadicated Phan on April 22, 2013, 02:47:11 PM
Well the Mark 3 im looking at is listed for $900, which may be on the high end, but not bad. If my twin was JUST blackfaced, then I would say I could sell it for about $1000, but it also has a preamp tap, so for people who just want to buy a 72 Twin, it brings the price down a bit. And the Mesa is a Red Stripe, which seems to be a more desirable stripe, especially since its the one Trey has.
The Red Stripe is the most recent of the MKIII's until they started to voice them with a more aggressive top-end. I think your probably right too - phans are probably collecting up a lot of the Reds.
$900 isn't bad, especially if you know its in playing condition, and I know what you mean about modded amps - you can get that $1K if you find someone who wants those specific mods anyway, otherwise you might take a hit (especially if holes were drilled into the chassis).
Forgot to mention the speakers in the Marshall! They are G12T-75s. They sounded pretty good, but not great for Trey tone. Not enough highs. I took 2 of them out and put the Emi's in and it sounds waaaayyy better.
Cool - I don't see many favorable reviews for G12T75's, but people do seem the like Emi RWBs.
Here's a good question ive had for a while: When exactly did trey use a Mark III? I know he used it from the 80s until the early 90s when he switched to the CAE 3+, did he use it again between the CAE and the Deluxe? I was looking at pictures and vids from the late 90s and did not see the Deluxe. Since im looking to get a Mark III I was just wondering.
Yea - it would be awesome to get info not only on specific eras/tours, but shows - I think sometimes he switched it up just for shits and giggles!
My comute to my newish job is 40min there and an hour home. I've been listening to The Phish on random and trying to guess the era and what amp both directions for the trip for the past several weeks. Certain shows, the Deluxe really sticks out tonally and the reverb really gives it away. There are a few shows that I have more trouble with.
The stuff that everyone knows is the MKIII - thats my favorite tone. He just cuts through and its so fat. Although when the DR is recorded well, its sounds great too. If I could have the DR's reverb in the MKIII, I would be a happy duderino.
Ya, the Deluxe is definitely a bit thinner and brighter. I think the CAE tone was the perfect balance. It was a bit brighter than the Mesa, but fuller sounding than the Deluxe. But the Mesa tone is kick ass. Ive got my tickets for PNC in July, so im looking forward to see what he's using there. It seems like he has the deluxe on stage with the Mesa now. Hopefully Ill be able to see it from the lawn ::)
I played on deluxe for the first time at my previous show...the reverb was shot on it- made the thing sounds like shit in my opinion. It wasnt my amp and i didn't get to sound check with it at all. But I agree with the previous statement that the deluxe has a thin sound to it. Does anyone else here play a deville 410 like me? I think its got a little more beef to it than the deluxe...