Volume Pedal

[Heady Jam Fan]

Do you guys use a volume pedal? If so, which one?

I have been using a boost rather than a volume, usually after the compressor. While it is easier to use before the comp, if the boost gets too high, the comp distorts. I can adjust the boost level with my foot as I roll back my guitar's volume knob, but I find myself setting it just high enough to get a good clean tone and ignoring what I think is an important range of dirt-variance between my guitar's volume maxed and down to clean.

I figured a volume pedal rather than my boost might help me utilize that range more effectively... I just always kinda looked down on the passive volume option as if it were taking away something from my rig: tone suck, etc.

Should I grab a volume pedal? Which do you suggest? And do you prefer to keep it before or after the comp?

Thanks!
Jon

EDIT: For those who are interested, I was thinking a cool mod on a volume would be adding a series effect loop for dirt pedals, switching to a dual gang pot, which attenuates the guitar's signal going to the loop's send and inversely controls a boost at the loop's return: heel down attenuates send, cleaning the pedal up, while boosting the return to stay at unity. I know this is complex, for one, a TS compresses as it gets dirtied, then the volume reaches an asymptote (levels off), so it is non-linear, and secondly, adding a second TS puts it in another ballpark of complexity.

[Happyorange27]

Heady I like your inventive mind.  You are a smart dude.  Anyway I like my boost after comp.  It has the most magnitude that way and it's more predictable.  Before comp sounds like your not getting the full potentially out of the boost/volume pedal.  I too think about a pedal but for now the boost is small and on/off, no thinking or manipulating volume.  However i miss a volume pedal in some tunes where i like to violin my my notes.  Swell them.

Keep up the ideas.  If i ever get bored I'll prototype the pedal you envision and we can take over the world..or not.

[Magilla]

Wow that's a cool idea man.  I use an EB Jr. at the end of my chain, I love the feel & it's easy to make smooth adjustments with.  Def comes in handy at jams & whatnot too, I like having a foot controlled master volume & the ability to use it for swells.

I have a flashback right in front of it in buffered mode, sounds good in my setup.

[Happyorange27]

I have a flashback right in front of it in buffered mode, sounds good in my setup.

Perfect.  Hey does that pedal hold it's position regardless of what angle it's at?  I would want one that doesn't fall forward.  Needs a bit of resistance to hold.

[Magilla]

Yeah the resistance is solid - it's definitely not going to move at all on it's own, regardless of what position it's in.

[Heady Jam Fan]

Thanks guys!

I was looking at the Ernie Ball - I like the size, but the 'strings' inside seem a bit questionable to me. I also wonder about tone loss, but I suppose you use the 'active,' 25K one after a buffer? I guess I could put it after my Fromel Shape...

I was also looking at the Dunlop, which is bigger, but doesn't have the strings to worry about. The Boss is supposedly decent as well.

Happy - as far as that build idea (and others), I probably sometimes think too much If you can build it, I think you win the Rig IQ test!

I talked to the guys at Pigtronix about it, they thought it was a great idea (I had JHS try to build it into a pedal with an expression know about 2 years ago and they failed). I don't have the money to gamble on a 50/50 chance of a custom build working for me, but they suggested I look at their Fat Drive, which seems TS-like with more saturation. I am supposed to call them tomorrow, I think they might be wondering if the idea will work better with their pedal since they know the ins and outs of it, plus they might only need to design the expression/volume/boost thingy with one other circuit in mind rather than 2 stacked screamers (stacking the second one probably negates the need for the boost circuit).

[Magilla]

Nah I just use the regular 250K passive one & the buffer before seems to do the trick.  The string is made of Kevlar, I wouldn't worry about it breaking unless you plan on being aggressive with it with a lot of fast tremolo type swells or something. But the Dunlop looks nice for sure, and would alleviate that concern. 

I'd go audition the top 2 or 3 you're interested in if possible, the feel factor is pretty crucial in making a choice too.

[Heady Jam Fan]

Yea, I read a lot of very opposite suggestions as to when the 25K and 250K version should be used, as well as mixed reviews about the string, ranging from no problems to frequent breaks with needed adjustments somewhere in the middle.

Good idea to try them... I sometimes forget that is an option. I'll see if one of the local shops carries a few options (GC is too far), but I feel bad trying in the store when I know I will buy used.

[fulltone1989]

Just to throw my .02 in, Morley makes a mini-volume pedal that's a bit smaller than the EB JR. I had one for awhile but I sold it to fund other purchases 

It's optical (no string) and was $30 in TGP emporium.

What the thru-tone mod for EB volumes is essentially putting a buffer before the pedal (I think)

[Heady Jam Fan]

Thanks for all the input guys!

I thought the same thing about thru tone, but I read that it also has a variable impedance control, which is cool. I am not committed enough to spend as much as those seem to be quite yet.

The Visual Sound looks cool since it can be set to boost, but the sweep seems like it might be less than ideal. It is also big and needs to be powered to get a boost (obviously).

The Boss and Dunlop have decent reviews, the EB has the most reviews by far and very mixed, so it is tough to make a decision.

I also talked to the guys at Pigtronix some more... they said they could build they idea, but it seem for them to be confident it would work in multiple rigs, the idea would get too complex and expensive for something that I would be just hoping would make me happy (though they said they would reimburse me if it didn't work right). They offered me a Philosophers Tone compressor, they said it compensates extremely well to volume changes and is much better than a Ross (they guy was a big Phish fan), but I don't think it will do what a Ross does special after 2 TS9s, I don't want transparency, I want that sweet midrange. I also don't have any of the noise problems he seemed to dislike about Ross circuits. He suggested cheaper options like using a stereo volume and wiring it as if it has a loop then switching the polarity of how one side of the dual gang pot is wired (I suspect a panning expression/volume pedal is already wired this way).

Any more opinions on Volume Pedals are helpful!

[Heady Jam Fan]

So I picked up a used Dunlop DVP1. It is huge, but no biggie. No noticeable tone suck, which is vital.

I only had a few minutes to play with it, so I need more time, particularly to practice setting it accurately and quickly to (to stay around unity with my guitar volume knob).

The tricky part is that you are kinda always below unity for what I am trying to do: put the toe down (no attenuation on the volume pedal) when I use my guitar volume knob to clean up, rock the volume back as I bring the guitar volume up across the range of overdrive until the drive is at max and the volume pedal is about 40% toward heel. This means I am never at the pre-volume pedal unity output of my dirt and comp pedals (since it is rolled 40% back from unity). I tried to crank my comp to compensate (no pun intended), but not only did it not make up for the difference, but it occurs to me that increasing the volume hitting means that the volume pedal has to cover a wider sweep (from max to silent), making it harder to dial in accurately.

While it was fun to play with some violin-type swells, that is not my style and I think that 'honeymoon' phase with that effect will end (if it starts). So I am kind of left feeling like an expression controlled boost - and I don't think I need a lot of boost - would be much more ideal!

So I am considering Frankensteining my MXR Micro Amp into the volume pedal - if it is possible. The MXR has a nice slow sweep as well, which I think would be perfect, plus it never gave me trouble with tone, so I wouldn't mind if that was an always on/buffer type deal. If it were a perfect world. I would also set the range I supposed I could do that by adding a resistor to the potentiometer in the Micro Amp.?.

Before I consider hacking my pedals apart, maybe I will try the volume pedal between the TSs and the Comp. Then I probably don't have to be as accurate setting the volume, and maybe I can stay closer to unity in that configuration.

I know you will just say turn the amp up more or something, but I kinda hate the thought of choking the signal a lot before I let the tubes get juicy.

[sour d]

Have you ever tried a keeley katana? It has a level knob mounted on the side that you can control with your foot. Best boost ever made and you can pull the knob out for a little grit if you want.

[Heady Jam Fan]

Yea, its a cool idea... the knob seems kinda out of the way - have you used it? How easy is it to access? I suppose you could set the pedal sideways.

I have an MXR Micro Amp with the rubber cover, but it is still a bit tedious.

I tried the volume pedal between the TSs and the Comp, which I think was easier. Just set the comp a little higher and louder, but I still think I am below unity.

[Happyorange27]

EDIT: For those who are interested, I was thinking a cool mod on a volume would be adding a series effect loop for dirt pedals, switching to a dual gang pot, which attenuates the guitar's signal going to the loop's send and inversely controls a boost at the loop's return: heel down attenuates send, cleaning the pedal up, while boosting the return to stay at unity. I know this is complex, for one, a TS compresses as it gets dirtied, then the volume reaches an asymptote (levels off), so it is non-linear, and secondly, adding a second TS puts it in another ballpark of complexity.

I wonder if you wired the TS on pins 1 and 2 of the pot and the volume pedal signal on pins 2 and 3 if that would do the trick?  The sweep is yinging and yanging inversely just like you desire.  I don't know if the signals would interfere or not.

[Heady Jam Fan]

Interesting idea... A dual gang pot ought to give you the ability to avoid the interference, right? Though that is sounding similar to the idea of a stereo volume with inversely wired dual gang pots (like a panning volume); guitar>input, output>TS's>input2, output 2 to comp. If I understand correctly, that would be a similar thing without wiring directly into the TS's...