Favorite amp for Jam

[Heady Jam Fan]

My BJ has a mid knob but it doesn't actually raise mids. It controls all frequencies.

Right, I remembered you bringing that info up a few months ago. I'm curious if that's the same with all fender amps...

I just read an article about this and I meant to post it, but it suggested that is how the midrange knob on all Fenders work, thus it would be used in conjunction with other knobs; bring back the treble and bass as you bring up the mid?

I think this is why some have suggested a Bandaxal (spelling?) type of midrange control.

[Heady Jam Fan]

I gotta say, I think it's hard to pigeon-hole any one certain amp that will deliver "the" jam tone.  Just all the different genres involved in jam band music require different tones, and I'm not talking about how Phish crosses many genres.  Moreso, the difference between Trey's, Jimmy Herring, Jake Cinnenger, Warren Haynes, or even Jerry's tone are all comprised of such different guitars, amps, and speakers and serve the music in the way the artist desires.  And if they all played through the exact same gear, I bet they'd still sound very different.  I guess all I'm saying is what does it matter that its for jam music?  Bluegrass, Rock, Southern rock, Prog rock, Jazz, Funk, Soul, Indie can all be jam, but in my opinion once it's labeled as jam, it just becomes some stereotyped bullshit.  Like is the tone for the Black Key's guitarist, Jack White, or even the Avenged Sevenfold guitarists not gonna be any good for jam?  And no, I'm not exactly saying that they have great tones, or are better or worse than any jamband.

Sorry for the rant, as I'm probably out of line, but that's just kind of how I'm feeling about jambands these days. End Cynicism.

But anyway, to join in the conversation and not be a total a-hole... I think my Egnater Rebel 20 and Mesa Boogie mkIII (blue) are great for me finding my tone as far as live performance goes.  I gotta say that I've been mostly disappointed with my Blues Jr Humboldt, just as I was with the Fender Hot Rod DeVille (4x10) I sold once I got my Egnater.  Doesn't say much about modern Fender amps for my own uses.  I've been going through some soul searching/tone experimentation, and as soon as I stopped thinking in "jam band" I feel like I've found some other amazing effects pedals and amps that are really serving me well for different tones I want to attain for an album that I hope to begin recording by the end of the year.  I got myself a '67 (or maybe '68) Fender Vibro Champ (silverface/drip-edge) that I'm really enjoying, and I recently traded an extra effects pedal to a tgp'er who built a hand-wired, 5w, single ended, class A amp head that he says is "loosely modeled after a plexi, with some mods inspired from Dr. Z and BadCat mini amps."  And I personally think that it may be my favorite!  It is ridiculously loud for 5 watts - uber-chimey w/ a really tight bottom end.  Just a gain and tone knob (12ax7 and a EL84, SS rectifier as plexi's are built that way), and plugged into my 1x12 Egnater cab w/ a Celestion Elite 80 spkr.  With the gain knob at 12 o'clock, there's so much volume and the gain blows away any overdrive pedal, although I'm thinking one of these days I may have to plug one of my old tubescreamers and/or the Timmy into it to see what happens.  In the future I may even consider trying to gig with an amp switcher using the "plexi" for overdrive/gain and vibro champ for cleans.

I know what you mean - I probably should have prefaced the OP more as Phish or U-Melt style, some Tea Leaf... But I agree there are other types of jam such as Widespread or Moses Guest (southern rock, as well as Allman Bros) and The Dead (West Coast Blue Grass), though I would put Kang from String Cheese in the same sonic group as Trey or U-Melt though stylistically more Blue Grass influenced.

As far as other bands having the potential to cross the line into jam, I think there are components that are hard to define - obviously the drawn out improvisational aspect directly matches the description of a jam band, but I would also say there is some sort of similar style in the music that is really hard to define, especially since there can be so much variation within one Jam band let alone between them. Maybe the jam culture as well, but that might be a chicken vs egg argument (does the band fit jam culture before or after the phans start showing up).

Although, this is a Phish forum, so I was just trying to get an idea of how people inevitably influenced by Trey in some way get their favorite tone. I love my Bassman, but musicians minds always wander to different gear at least out of curiosity. I have always been a Fender fan, but there is a MKIII at a local guitar shop that I might try out. I feel like it might not satisfy my Fender needs, especially when I play classic rock or blues (the 2nd channel might, but might be too Marshall-y and the first channel only might get close enough to Fender cleans). I just sometimes feel the bassman is more beefy than a lot of Fenders and I think I am sometimes sacrificing low-mid punch to ward off the excess bass a Fender might have, as well as sometimes lacking some presence that I wish I had (which is the EQ range I was talking about above, having a slappy-like sound). I mess around with a lot of EQ changes in my rig last night and did some recordings and found myself adding low mids and presence (as well as cutting some treble and bass) after the recording, which really makes the guitar parts pop out (I think I notice these frequencies in Trey's recordings, especially in somewhat clean rhythm parts, even more than that right-smack in the midrange frequency of a TS). I am having trouble getting those frequencies to pop as much as I would like playing live.

I have also thought about adding an Effect Loop to my amp since I find it really helpful for playing classic rock on the dirty channel (I can't stand reverb into a dirty amp and delay is only sometimes acceptable). That is one of the reasons a Mesa looked cool, along with the graphic EQ. Though I suppose if I really wanted to I could add a presence knob and maybe even a low-mid control to my amp as well... Probably won't do any of this, just thinking out loud.

[Happyorange27]

My BJ has a mid knob but it doesn't actually raise mids. It controls all frequencies.

Right, I remembered you bringing that info up a few months ago. I'm curious if that's the same with all fender amps...

I just read an article about this and I meant to post it, but it suggested that is how the midrange knob on all Fenders work, thus it would be used in conjunction with other knobs; bring back the treble and bass as you bring up the mid?

I think this is why some have suggested a Bandaxal (spelling?) type of midrange control.

Yes Heady, the Baxandall is the way to be.  I won't bore you all again on my rants for this but in a nut shell most amps, especially Fenders (even with a mid knob) can't create a mid hump.  That is all.

[Stiles12]

I have both a DRRI and a Groove Tube Trio, I use The DRRI to mess around with, The Trio is my main pre-amp which is run through a VHT 2:90:2 power amp. Depending on where I am playing (size of the room really) depends on if I run it from the VHT to a speaker Cab, or if I go to the SPL Transducer. The Transducer is an amazing piece of equipment.

[fulltone1989]

I guess the big question for me when choosing an amp for "jam" music or anything else really is, how is the clean tone? I get my base sound from the amp, but all my drive and mod and whatnot comes from a pedalboard. That being said I am mainly drawn towards amps that make a great pedal platform and may or may not have reverb.

[Heady Jam Fan]

I guess the big question for me when choosing an amp for "jam" music or anything else really is, how is the clean tone? I get my base sound from the amp, but all my drive and mod and whatnot comes from a pedalboard. That being said I am mainly drawn towards amps that make a great pedal platform and may or may not have reverb.

I guess I would look for a great clean tone first, but I love a good tube amp overdrive, no pedals can really compare, which makes having an amp with reverb or an effect loop more helpful if you want reverb - sometimes I don't mind not using it.

[fulltone1989]

I guess the big question for me when choosing an amp for "jam" music or anything else really is, how is the clean tone? I get my base sound from the amp, but all my drive and mod and whatnot comes from a pedalboard. That being said I am mainly drawn towards amps that make a great pedal platform and may or may not have reverb.

I guess I would look for a great clean tone first, but I love a good tube amp overdrive, no pedals can really compare, which makes having an amp with reverb or an effect loop more helpful if you want reverb - sometimes I don't mind not using it.

I can agree to that, but I like having a few different flavors of OD to choose from and buying a new dirt is cheaper than getting a new amp whenever GAS hits uncontrollably. An effects loop would be useful however!

[Heady Jam Fan]

I guess the big question for me when choosing an amp for "jam" music or anything else really is, how is the clean tone? I get my base sound from the amp, but all my drive and mod and whatnot comes from a pedalboard. That being said I am mainly drawn towards amps that make a great pedal platform and may or may not have reverb.

I guess I would look for a great clean tone first, but I love a good tube amp overdrive, no pedals can really compare, which makes having an amp with reverb or an effect loop more helpful if you want reverb - sometimes I don't mind not using it.

I can agree to that, but I like having a few different flavors of OD to choose from and buying a new dirt is cheaper than getting a new amp whenever GAS hits uncontrollably. An effects loop would be useful however!

For sure, I have owned dozens of 'amp-like' overdrives and none compare to my Bassman. I got tired of fuzz cuz isn't midrangy enough.

I might try to (or get someone else to) change the line out in my Bassman to an effect loop (is that sacrilegious?) and maybe test out a graphic EQ for tightening the bass and tweaking the low mids and presence.

[fulltone1989]

I don't see why not! The guy who I sold my SCXD to mods the line outs on thems to an effects loops. If a normal fella can do it on a PCB board then a handwired amp should be easier and less time-consuming - cheaper if you take it to a tech. There'd be another hole in the back on the chassis though should you decide to sell it.

[Heady Jam Fan]

Yea, I am trying to remember if there is an extra hole I am not using (chuckle), I don't have a drill at my current place. I am sure it would be an easy mod if I can find a spot after the preamp tubes. I could move the line out wire there to be a send or receive, then I just need to add the other one. I also think I could change the bright switch to a presence or low mids switch pretty easily, just a matter of matching the value of the component with the frequency I want to boost.

BWT, I remember reading about the Mods on Trey's Deluxe and thought one of them changed a cap to a different value to increase the compression in the amp? I tried to find where I read that, but for the life of me, I can't... I always feel like that little deluxe sounds so naturally compressed like it is about to explode, my amp certainly never gets that compressed.

[picture_of_nectar]

Got my '67 Deluxe Reverb. Amp breaks up pretty early but at lower volumes it sounds fantastic. Maybe a modern speker would give it more headroom.

[sour d]

Got my '67 Deluxe Reverb. Amp breaks up pretty early but at lower volumes it sounds fantastic. Maybe a modern speker would give it more headroom.

I put a weber capifornia in my '64 deluxe. Very happy with it.

[IamWILSON]

Heady- do yourself a favor and check make the drive and check out the mkIII.  Unfortunately, being at gutiar center it is probably over priced though.  They are really great amps and you'll get tons of great classic rock tones from it.  I've read some negative things in the web about the mkIII being too hard to dial in, or that you can't balance all 3 channels to be able to use them in a live situation, but I didn't find it hard to dial in.  And as far as balancing the channels, you just need to find the sweet spot on the volume knob (around 6 or 7), then all 3 channels are great!  Also, I believe the GEQ on them is after the gain stages, so you can EQ in an extra midhump specifically for the lead channel.  And the amp does take pedals great!  Reverb sounds good, as the range of the knob is much more usable than any fender reverb knob I've touched.  The EVM speaker is great too, you'll find you can keep the bass very present and tight at a low setting w/o sacrificing any tone (unless you're just talking about the mkIII head).  IMO the mkIII does a better job at the vintage fender shimmering tones than most newer Fender amps, and rhythm channel 2 is not overly-Marshally, yet I was able to even dial in great tones for AC/DC or Led Zeppelin, even while using a s/s/s strat! 

[Heady Jam Fan]

Heady- do yourself a favor and check make the drive and check out the mkIII.  Unfortunately, being at gutiar center it is probably over priced though.  They are really great amps and you'll get tons of great classic rock tones from it.  I've read some negative things in the web about the mkIII being too hard to dial in, or that you can't balance all 3 channels to be able to use them in a live situation, but I didn't find it hard to dial in.  And as far as balancing the channels, you just need to find the sweet spot on the volume knob (around 6 or 7), then all 3 channels are great!  Also, I believe the GEQ on them is after the gain stages, so you can EQ in an extra midhump specifically for the lead channel.  And the amp does take pedals great!  Reverb sounds good, as the range of the knob is much more usable than any fender reverb knob I've touched.  The EVM speaker is great too, you'll find you can keep the bass very present and tight at a low setting w/o sacrificing any tone (unless you're just talking about the mkIII head).  IMO the mkIII does a better job at the vintage fender shimmering tones than most newer Fender amps, and rhythm channel 2 is not overly-Marshally, yet I was able to even dial in great tones for AC/DC or Led Zeppelin, even while using a s/s/s strat! 

Cool, I keep going back and forth about being excited to check out that amp and like "f'it, not worth the drive," but your reply makes me think an early Saturday venture might be worth it. It is listed for like $860 IIRC and in good condition, not sure what stripe (I suspect I would prefer red or purple). It is a combo 1x12, which I prefer over other options, with an EV speaker (though I will probably get an Alnico Blue Dog or something since I doubt my Red Fang could handle it). I figured I might have to try negotiating the price a bit, if I even consider buying it - I would have to be blown away and ready to sell my Bassman honestly because of finances. I figured $860 is probably not a bad price though...

I wouldn't be surprised if I liked the clean more than Reissue Fenders - I played a DRRI a couple months ago and felt it was bland, dull and lifeless. However, it might not touch my Bassman An amp is always a balance between a pure, unadulterated clean channel, which I associated with minimal circuitry, and extra circuitry to maximum flexibility for the user. I just have to suspect all of the functions on a Mesa has to sacrifice some tone or feel, but I will have to try before judging!

I have heard about trouble balancing channels too. I am trying to make a guess how I will like the lead channel - as clean as I can get it or a bit of drive. I was thinking if it as more of an EQ change than a wild lead... I have to admit, I was wondering how Trey has his set since his lead still sounds like it is mostly distortion from the TS(s).

The worst part about testing gear is that I can't really get a feel unless I bring my gear, which means I will be showing up at GC with my Artinger and probably pedalboard (or at least both TS's, a comp and maybe a delay to try out the effect loop).

PS - another one, just a head in a rack setup, just came up at another store for $599, no other info on it so far...

[MomaDan]

I use the Vox AC15 with a greenback speaker. Its the perfect size for what I use if for right now, small gigs and bedroom practice.  A mids knob would be nice on the amp. Same with an effects loop. I do enjoy that top boost flavor for nice breakup with the clean volume channel down and the boost up.