These screamers weren't modded then, right?
If so, I think I like the sound of those better than the 808 mods. I have an 808 reissue and I just can't get it right.
I thought he had his TS9s modded to the 808/Silver by AnalogMan.
If you read the descriptions of Analogman's Silver mod's (not 808 only) I think he mentions something about how it is "for those discriminating players".... etc.... So you may very well be correct in that Trey's mid 90s screamers were in fact not modded. Maybe they were, maybe not. I do agree however that they do sound different today. Maybe just get the silver and see for yourself. I use the reissue 808 version, unmodded and absolutely prefer it to the reissue TS9. Just too lazy to send in for the silver. If I remember correctly there was a picture someone posted awhile back that had an older tube screamer (TS something) in Treys rack. Maybe that is what you saw?
Yeah, I don't think they were modded. But I just plugged in my 808 Reissue side by side with a TS9 Reissue and I honestly can't hear much difference.
I may send mine in for a silver mod just to see.
I think they were definitely modified; there were people doing that in the mid '90s though we couldn't imagine knowing what modifications were made unless we have a schematic or pic of the actual circuits.
Okay, I have been seeing alot of different posts and I think I can shed some light and clear up some misconceptions.
If you are after Trey's tone from the early 90's up to the 2004 hiatus you want to find TS808 modded Tube Screamers (TS9). You want the Japanese TS9 version made in the late 80's through about 95'. These all used the same circuit and by TS808 modding it you get that trey sound.... well almost. TS9's made post 95' are about the same but with afew circuiit changes, nothing major but if you want to authentic tone the japanese versions are the ones you want. Trey had boxes and boxes of these pedals as backups, as they were old to begin with and required frequent swapping, especially for as much tour the boys did back then. If you want that 90's tone you want the analogman standard TS808 mod (not the silver or brown mod) Here is why:
-The SILVER mod removes some of that mid hump that trey's 90's tone was focused around.
-The BROWN mod adds more crunch, which is good if you want that Van Halen tone, but not the Phish tone.
Well, I said this will "almost" get his tone, you also need to buy a second standard TS808 modded TS9.
The first TS9 set with the overdrive at 10 o'clock, the second set with the overdrive to about 4 o'clock. Both have the tone set to 11 or 12 o'clock, and volume on both set to max. Why max volume? keep reading..............
The next item you need is a compressor. A good Compressor. From 1991 to about 2007 Trey used a Ross Compressor, these go for about $300-$400 on ebay. It is not necessary to spend that much. A bunch of boutique pedal makers make clones of the Ross including Analogman, Keeley, or my personal favorite CMATMODS. They all are about about the same, but CMATMODS compressor costs the least. (about $120) Chad Matthew at CMATMODS does the custom pedal work for Monte Allums, and decided to make his own company. www.cmatmods.com
-Do not buy the Signa Comp (or Deluxe) they are more versatile but are not clones of the Ross Compressor and do not handle overdrive as well. They are better for cleaner playing.
Well, you want to put that compressor after the two TS9's. This will compensate for the the TS9's having their volumes set to the max. Trey did this to give him the ability to control the amount of overdrive with his volume knob rather than the pedal knobs. So when playing mellower stuff would use the first TS9 (overdrive at 10 o;clock) and would kick in the second TS9 (overdrive at 4 o'clock) for stuff like Chalk Dust Torture but keeping his guitar volume knob at 75%, and at the break away solo part would open the volume knob all the way.
Also, the reason the compressor is at the end to control overall volume. It will keep clean (no overdrive) playing the same volume as the overdriven volume for even sound, and to ensure the intrique picking evenly level so you hear the nuances of his playing.
As you could imagine I am a huge Phish fan, have been since my first show in 1993, and my most recent show at Alpine 6/21/09. I have been able to replicate his 90's tone exactly.
Did I mention to replicate his tone you need a good guitar as well. A hollowbody works best (I use a Raven RP-450 with Schaller Super Golden 50's in it, and a Cort CL-1400 (Seymounr Duncan JB/59 set) & CL-1500 (Schaller Golden 50's set), but most of all you need practice scales, over and over then once more for good measure.
Also for that Trey solo sounds, he likes to start playing at about half way through the scale to give him that floating over the music effect, then going over the top hitting that note (if you have seen phish live you know the note I am talking about)
Oh......If you want Treys current 2009 tone, get the analogman silver modded pedals. They are good just don't sound exactly the same as in the 1993-1997 era.
I think Gabe's points are well documented already in various other posts but he deserves our thanks nonetheless for bringing it all together in this well-written, upbeat discussion.
However, he does give some information that doesn't appear elsewhere in the forum: the points highlighting key differences between the standard TS808 mod and its successive "Brown" and "Silver" tweaks, and namely *why* certain mods do not give you that more familiar mid-nineties mid-hump.
Quote from: Gabe on July 29, 2009, 11:25:50 AM
Okay, I have been seeing alot of different posts and I think I can shed some light and clear up some misconceptions.
If you are after Trey's tone from the early 90's up to the 2004 hiatus you want to find TS808 modded Tube Screamers (TS9). You want the Japanese TS9 version made in the late 80's through about 95'. These all used the same circuit and by TS808 modding it you get that trey sound.... well almost. TS9's made post 95' are about the same but with afew circuiit changes, nothing major but if you want to authentic tone the japanese versions are the ones you want. Trey had boxes and boxes of these pedals as backups, as they were old to begin with and required frequent swapping, especially for as much tour the boys did back then. If you want that 90's tone you want the analogman standard TS808 mod (not the silver or brown mod) Here is why:
-The SILVER mod removes some of that mid hump that trey's 90's tone was focused around.
-The BROWN mod adds more crunch, which is good if you want that Van Halen tone, but not the Phish tone.
Well, I said this will "almost" get his tone, you also need to buy a second standard TS808 modded TS9.
The first TS9 set with the overdrive at 10 o'clock, the second set with the overdrive to about 4 o'clock. Both have the tone set to 11 or 12 o'clock, and volume on both set to max. Why max volume? keep reading..............
The next item you need is a compressor. A good Compressor. From 1991 to about 2007 Trey used a Ross Compressor, these go for about $300-$400 on ebay. It is not necessary to spend that much. A bunch of boutique pedal makers make clones of the Ross including Analogman, Keeley, or my personal favorite CMATMODS. They all are about about the same, but CMATMODS compressor costs the least. (about $120) Chad Matthew at CMATMODS does the custom pedal work for Monte Allums, and decided to make his own company. www.cmatmods.com
-Do not buy the Signa Comp (or Deluxe) they are more versatile but are not clones of the Ross Compressor and do not handle overdrive as well. They are better for cleaner playing.
Well, you want to put that compressor after the two TS9's. This will compensate for the the TS9's having their volumes set to the max. Trey did this to give him the ability to control the amount of overdrive with his volume knob rather than the pedal knobs. So when playing mellower stuff would use the first TS9 (overdrive at 10 o;clock) and would kick in the second TS9 (overdrive at 4 o'clock) for stuff like Chalk Dust Torture but keeping his guitar volume knob at 75%, and at the break away solo part would open the volume knob all the way.
Also, the reason the compressor is at the end to control overall volume. It will keep clean (no overdrive) playing the same volume as the overdriven volume for even sound, and to ensure the intrique picking evenly level so you hear the nuances of his playing.
As you could imagine I am a huge Phish fan, have been since my first show in 1993, and my most recent show at Alpine 6/21/09. I have been able to replicate his 90's tone exactly.
Did I mention to replicate his tone you need a good guitar as well. A hollowbody works best (I use a Raven RP-450 with Schaller Super Golden 50's in it, and a Cort CL-1400 (Seymounr Duncan JB/59 set) & CL-1500 (Schaller Golden 50's set), but most of all you need practice scales, over and over then once more for good measure.
Also for that Trey solo sounds, he likes to start playing at about half way through the scale to give him that floating over the music effect, then going over the top hitting that note (if you have seen phish live you know the note I am talking about)
thanks and welcome to the site!
I've been getting extremely frustrated with my sound lately. Im playing through a gibson studio>whammyII>garmopat vox>Analogman BiComp>ts9(silver)>ts9(garmopat)>boomeraing>Fender DR and i just can't get the sound that i want. I know that i cannot replicate exactly Trey's mid 90s tone but thats what im after (ex. livephish vol. 12). I've got the volume on my amp set at 6, treble at 7 and bass between 7 and 8, with the garmopat ts9 level at about 8 o'clock, drive at 10, tone at 12 (so most of the volume is coming from the amp). The ts9 silver's level is between 9 and 10 o'clock, drive at 3 and tone at 12. Sometimes when i play through this it sounds great, other times i wanna throw my amp through the window. When it sounds bad the tone will just be really thin and slightly twangy. I've recently noticed a level knob on the back of the whammy so i put it at 12 o'clock, this made the tone a little bit thicker and less twangy but it is a bit more distorted. I tried what gabe recommended, putting the ts9s level all the way up but this did not work for me. Maybe because im playing the modded ts9s? I dont know. Does anybody have any suggestions? It is really effecting my playing because i spend 3/4 of the time im practicing tweeking knobs. If it continues i might sell everything and start from scratch. Thanks!
A lot of that ^^^ is true. I'd also put your Whammy at the end of the chain. Having it at the beginning is a killer from the get-go. And although I don't have one, I've heard those Boomerangs will suck tone like a hoover. IMO....do you really even need it right now? Get a delay pedal, put it right before the Whammy, and go from there. If you feel like getting a bypass looper, then go for it, but looks like you've got more pressing needs than that as of right now. I think just taking the 'Rang out for now isn't a bad idea. Hell, try it and see what you think. But move that Whammy either way. Order should be Guitar > Wah > TS9 (silver) > TS9 (garmopat) > Comp > delay > Whammy, and if you have the 'Rang in there w/out the looper, I guess put it right before the Whammy, though again I've never owned one.
I'd also reco' getting rid of the BiComp, but that's a personal choice, so if you like it, keep it. I had one, waited 18 months for it, and returned it within a week of getting it. I got a Keeley 4knob comp instead, very happy with it. Either way, the comp is not your most pressing need.
After all that, yeah, your guitar and amp aren't the cat's meow, but they should suffice until you save up for one or the other, or both.
Youenjoymyreba...haven't we been through this already? btw- not to be forum police, but this probably wasn't the best place to post question about your rig. the "Your Rig" section would prolly be better.
How do you like your clean tone? Guitar straight into your amp. If you aren't happy here, adding fancy pedals ain't gunna help a whole lot. That's where you wanna start. From there add one pedal at a time and see when things go off. Start with the Wah (which should be good), TS9s then the digital pedals. AT what point does your tone go from good to crap?
Next experiment with different volumes. Can you turn your amp up, and the guitar volume down a little? You need to drive those tubes with some power before they start sounding like they should.
Next, the cheapest thing you can do to improve your tone is get a true bypass looper to isolate those digitial pedals (the whammy and 'rang).
You can throw all the pedals you want at a Studio LP and it's not gunna sound like a Hollowbody. That was my first electric guitar and I returned it to Guitar center within a month because it just wasn't my thing. So I'd save your money for an Axe upgrade. Consider the new Equator Instruments 'PAL' model, $1,500. (wait for poster to say Equator sucks next).
I hope this advioce helps a little. Posters advice of "all your equipment sucks" isn't gunna get you real far today. Just remember, the more time you spend turning knobs the less time you spend running your scales!
Thank you fellas i greatly appreciate your time and patience. Im gonna try everything you guys said, but i thought Deluxe Reverbs were good amps. Doesnt Trey use one?
PS Sorry for posting in the wrong forum
Yes, the Deluxe Reverb is a great amp. Trey used one from 98-2004, now he uses his Mesa Boogie, which is what he used pre '96 I think. Of course Treys is prolly an original 1965 amp and has different tubes and speaker, so it's not the same amp as a Deluxe Reverb '65 Reissue that you can buy down at guitar center right now.
Don't listen to poster who is saying you equipment sucks, he is the biggets gear snob on the web! ;)
Again, go back to basics, you guitar and amp. Experiment with different volumes and EQ settings. Do you like your clean tone?
If not then I would change the guitar first.
If you do like your clean tone then remove the digital pedals. Do you still like your tone with just the wah(which should be true bypass) and Ts9s?
If the answer is yes, then you need to create a seperate loop for the digital pedals if you still want to use them occasionally.
One of these and some cables is all you need:
http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-Keeley-Looper-Pedal-True-Bypass-Switcher-Pedal_W0QQitemZ230417672595QQcmdZViewItemQQptZGuitar_Accessories?hash=item35a5f6a993
Thank you i really appreciate it. Im gonna order one at the end of the week. This is gonna sound really stupid, so please bare with me. I think im reading the pedal chains wrong. The way im looking at it, im seeing Guitar plugged into whammy, plugged into wah, plugged into ts9, and so on. So the guitar is the first in the chain and the amp is last, meaning that whatever pedal is plugged into the amp is the last pedal in the chain and the pedal plugged into the guitar is the first. Correct? Please forgive my ignorance.
yes u did but im not sure if im reading it right
Yeah it should be fairly obvious even to a true beginner that a Les Paul isn't going to give you Trey tone.
Try this:
Guitar->wah->Ts9->Ts9->True bypass switch->Hig Gain Amp Input (all analog)
->Whammy->Looper->Low Gain Amp Input (analog pedals + digital pedals)
This is basically how i have my rig, except I have a chorus pedal and delay pedal in there and no whammy. This way I can set a metronome beat that runs while I play clean, i can engage the bypass switch, loop a progression, then disengage it and solo using the analog circuit.
I understand that im not gonna get a trey tone from my les paul but it was a gift from my dad and its all ive got right now. Times are tough at the moment but when i get the money buying a hollowbody is the first thing im gonna do. I will look into the equators but what are some other good hollowbodies to check out?
I'm not a fan of Equators either. I'll leave it at that.
I think you're amp is fine, for now at least. Maybe look into getting a nice Tone Tubby (the red one) speaker. They're around $300.
Switch the order of your pedals first. Mess around w/ the bass/mid/treble/reverb & get that where you want it. Without looking, I think I have my bass and treble around the 4-5 range, and the mid is up around 10, I believe. Different amp though...I just remembered those DR's don't have a mid pot do they? Oh well. You've got some nice pedals (minus that BiComp, IMO), so you should be able to get somewhere near where you're looking w/ what you've got. Yeah, the LesPaul won't get you "Trey" sound, but that's fine for now, it's a fine guitar and it's what you've got. Save up and get something nice. I'd of course reco' Andrew Olsen @ www.aoguitars.com (http://www.aoguitars.com). Have him build you what you want.
Thank you all very much. No DRs do not have a mid pot. I really appreciate everything but im still not sure if im reading the pedal chains correctly.
Quote from: YouEnjoyMyReba on December 29, 2009, 04:27:05 PM
The way im looking at it, im seeing Guitar plugged into whammy, plugged into wah, plugged into ts9, and so on. So the guitar is the first in the chain and the amp is last, meaning that whatever pedal is plugged into the amp is the last pedal in the chain and the pedal plugged into the guitar is the first. Correct? Please forgive my ignorance.
Is this correct?
yeah youenjoymyreba, Guitar is first, Amp is last...think of your signal originating in the string->pickup->through pedal chain-> amp. The music doesn't start in your Amp does it?
I have owned 3 Hollowbody guitars, a PRS and 2 Equators.
The PRS is definately a nicer build quality as far as having prefect fit and finish. The Equators were a little rougher around the edges, not perfect. But the tone was NO comparison. 100x closer to that of a Languedoc then a PRS. Only true hollowbdy guitar without a centerblock can touch the sustain and harmonics Trey gets. As far as i know, Equator is the only one producing slimline hollowbodies with no centerblock. Am I wrong?
Sorry i won't buy chep shit made in korea on an assembly line.
How long have you been waiting for you're AO guitar Poster? 9 months?
Ok thank you. Thats what i figured but i was looking at Treys rig and i noticed that his wah is after his Ts9s but maybe thats just the way its placed on the pedal board, idk. Anyway thank you very much, i really appreciate everything you guys have said, since i have become a member of these forums i have learned an incredible amount of information. Maybe one day i can be a true jedi like you guys!
jeesus, chill out, I didn't compare the two. I asked how long your build took. the axe looks sexy as hell and I am sure it's top notch. sorry I struck a nerve. It's too bad you're such an ass...makes this place pretty intimedating to come to with questions for anyone who isn't 'pro' like you.
wow trolling in epic form. momma said if i cant say nuthin nice i shouldnt say anything. lucky i got my no trolling badge in brownies ::)
whos trollin who? I come on to offer some what I believe to be sound advice...and poster calls my guitar a wonky peice of shit...so whatever.
Both of you guys offer very valiable opinions. As a newbie Poster's post are somewhat intimidating but very informative nonetheless, sometimes i need some non-sugar coated information. Picture of Nectar you have also been extremely helpful and very welcoming and i greatly appreciate your patience and zen like tolerance. Thanks to everyone involved in this forum, I value everybodys opinions that post here.
Quote from: picture_of_nectar on December 29, 2009, 10:54:48 PM
whos trollin who? I come on to offer some what I believe to be sound advice...and poster calls my guitar a wonky peice of shit...so whatever.
lol you seem a little stressed man
(http://i413.photobucket.com/albums/pp214/bigsteventhesteve/david-carradine-poster.jpg)
I'm gonna kick both of you in the mouth and then take a dump in it and make you chew, and I had Mexican for dinner, so STFU already. Make your points without attacking each other. However, it does need to be said that the above picture if fucknig hilarious. Who doesn't love David Carradine? May he rest in peace.
picture_of_nectar, Equator is defintely not the only dude building hollow's w/out a center block. My Resurrection doesn't have one, AO builds them without...and I'm sure there's many more out there. It is true though that a hollowbody guitar with a center block and one without are 2 totally different animals. And YouEnjoyMyReba, for the record, you'll want one without a center block if you do get a hollowbody. Your pedal chain starts with your guitar, goes into your wah, then into your TS's, then delay/boomerang, then into the Whammy, then into the amp. The Whammy should be the last thing in your chain if you don't have a way to bypass it or don't have a switching system. Move your chain around accordingly, then see how you like it, and report back with what you've learned from the new series of pedals.
Ok i switched the order. I have guitar>wah>Ts9>Ts9>Bicomp>Whammy II>Boomerang>amp. It sounds better but there was a considerate jump in volume when the Bicomp and Whammy were engaged. The Bicomp was not a problem, i just turned the level knob down. However, the whammy was extremely loud when engaged and did not get any quieter when i turned the level knob on the back down. It also had some other weird unexplainable sound coming out of it. Overall, however, without the whammy engaged my tone did sound better (thicker,warmer), but i like to use my whammy alot, especially with the wah. Any ideas? Thanks again everyone, your help is greatly appreciated!
I also got the georgle L cables that someone suggested and i love them, thanks!
Quote from: posternutbag on December 29, 2009, 05:57:45 PM
i cant even fathom how you can compare a guitar built by a hobbyist and that of a hollowbody built by Andrew O who studied under Tobias... You dont even know what your rambling on about. There wont be a fucking thing ROUGH about this guitar. and of course its truly hollow.
furthermore the construction of a prs hollowbody and that of an equator is completely different. the stop tail and tail piece are night and day different. i would argue from your line of reasoning a huge gibson hollowbody with the tail piece would sound closer to a languedoc than a fucking wonky equator with its warped sloppy everything.
Don't edit this any further...
I couldn't agree more with the tone of your comments regarding equator.
Also: Thanks, YouEnjoyMyReba for the kind words.
edit: "make [them] chew" hahahahahaha
Ok as much as i love them im gonna yank em. I will have a true bypass looper by the end of the week... hopefully. Thanks!
i dont know man back when i first got my ts9's before i sent them i tried to run them through eachother and it was a flat out shit sandwitch. im not saying i KNOW the answer, but id be shocked if that was him with 2 unmodded stock ts's...
what i DO know is the silvers are redunky
Quote from: HunSanity on February 05, 2010, 10:46:38 AM
what i DO know is the silvers are redunky
My frozen Canadian brain is having problems, what do you mean by redunky???
I have an '82 ts9 on my board right now because to me it sounded so much warmer than my analogman 808 mod. I use a silver mod od9 as my second tubescreamer. If you ever get a chance A/B an early 80's ts9 with whatever your using now.
Quote from: ColForbin on February 15, 2010, 07:14:10 PM
Quote from: HunSanity on February 05, 2010, 10:46:38 AM
what i DO know is the silvers are redunky
My frozen Canadian brain is having problems, what do you mean by redunky???
I'm guessing he means = redonkulous = rediculous = awesome. Rough translation, 'fcourse.
And while we're on vocabulary, and for those of you not familiar with the term
'fcourse, it's a term often used by our beloved color commentator for the Red Sox, none other than Jerry Remy. With baseball season almost upon us, I figured I'd get myself in shape for spring training lingo. Remy is known for actually making up words, and as you can see in this example, he's actually combining 2 words into one, "of" and "course", whereby he drops the ever-pesky "o" from the word "of" for a better and more efficient flow. It 'fcourse allows for more words in a shorter period of time. It's almost like time traveling. Yes, Jerry Remy has invented time travel. Class dismissed.
The only person who time travels in this forum is Poster, and he always does it at 3 o'clock in the morning.
alright guys lets not pretend we dont know what the word REDUNKY means. ahahaha..
Quote from: HunSanity on February 16, 2010, 02:11:35 PM
alright guys lets not pretend we dont know what the word REDUNKY means. ahahaha..
Ha.
Actually, I didn't until Walker cleared it up for me.....sometimes I need clarification eh??
Quote from: Gabe on July 29, 2009, 11:25:50 AM
They all are about about the same, but CMATMODS compressor costs the least. (about $120) Chad Matthew at CMATMODS does the custom pedal work for Monte Allums, and decided to make his own company. www.cmatmods.com
-Do not buy the Signa Comp (or Deluxe) they are more versatile but are not clones of the Ross Compressor and do not handle overdrive as well. They are better for cleaner playing.
Just want to know why Gabe says don't get the Deluxe compressor from Cmatmods? On the website it looks like it's the same Ross clone as his basic pedal, just with more knobs.
http://www.cmatmods.com/deluxe-compressor.html (http://www.cmatmods.com/deluxe-compressor.html)