Hey guys, I just picked up a second Ts9 which is actually a Analogman modded Maxon OD9.
I'm curious how you guys with double Ts9s (or how Trey) runs the settings.
Right now I have the first Ts9 Silver with Drive at 8o'clock and the level at 3o'clock. The second one I have the Drive at about 2o'clock and Level down to about 9o'clock.
Theory being that the first will be a clean boost that is on most of the time while the 2nd (OD9) will be used when I need more distortion.
Does this sound right? I know it's a matter of playing with it and finding your taste/tone, but what do you guys do?
Sorry if this is a repeat thread.
Cheers
The best thing you could do would be to use the search bar uptop and key in various tube screamer monikers (e.g. ts9, ts-9, etc). Read everything; it should take an hour or two but afterwards you will have an expanded understanding of the ts9 qua trey's use of it.
yeah, thanks. I'm just taking the lazy route as usuall. Not necesarily looking for exactly what Trey does.
Matt
I'm sorry, I thought this was a forum about trey. By bad.
Ummmm well there is a Trey's Rig section. But I posted in the Guitar Effects forum.
Anyway, you were right a quick search yeilded this:
QuoteOkay, I have been seeing alot of different posts and I think I can shed some light and clear up some misconceptions.
If you are after Trey's tone from the early 90's up to the 2004 hiatus you want to find TS808 modded Tube Screamers (TS9). You want the Japanese TS9 version made in the late 80's through about 95'. These all used the same circuit and by TS808 modding it you get that trey sound.... well almost. TS9's made post 95' are about the same but with afew circuiit changes, nothing major but if you want to authentic tone the japanese versions are the ones you want. Trey had boxes and boxes of these pedals as backups, as they were old to begin with and required frequent swapping, especially for as much tour the boys did back then. If you want that 90's tone you want the analogman standard TS808 mod (not the silver or brown mod) Here is why:
-The SILVER mod removes some of that mid hump that trey's 90's tone was focused around.
-The BROWN mod adds more crunch, which is good if you want that Van Halen tone, but not the Phish tone.
Well, I said this will "almost" get his tone, you also need to buy a second standard TS808 modded TS9.
The first TS9 set with the overdrive at 10 o'clock, the second set with the overdrive to about 4 o'clock. Both have the tone set to 11 or 12 o'clock, and volume on both set to max. Why max volume? keep reading..............
The next item you need is a compressor. A good Compressor. From 1991 to about 2007 Trey used a Ross Compressor, these go for about $300-$400 on ebay. It is not necessary to spend that much. A bunch of boutique pedal makers make clones of the Ross including Analogman, Keeley, or my personal favorite CMATMODS. They all are about about the same, but CMATMODS compressor costs the least. (about $120) Chad Matthew at CMATMODS does the custom pedal work for Monte Allums, and decided to make his own company. www.cmatmods.com
-Do not buy the Signa Comp (or Deluxe) they are more versatile but are not clones of the Ross Compressor and do not handle overdrive as well. They are better for cleaner playing.
Well, you want to put that compressor after the two TS9's. This will compensate for the the TS9's having their volumes set to the max. Trey did this to give him the ability to control the amount of overdrive with his volume knob rather than the pedal knobs. So when playing mellower stuff would use the first TS9 (overdrive at 10 o;clock) and would kick in the second TS9 (overdrive at 4 o'clock) for stuff like Chalk Dust Torture but keeping his guitar volume knob at 75%, and at the break away solo part would open the volume knob all the way.
Also, the reason the compressor is at the end to control overall volume. It will keep clean (no overdrive) playing the same volume as the overdriven volume for even sound, and to ensure the intrique picking evenly level so you hear the nuances of his playing.
As you could imagine I am a huge Phish fan, have been since my first show in 1993, and my most recent show at Alpine 6/21/09. I have been able to replicate his 90's tone exactly.
Did I mention to replicate his tone you need a good guitar as well. A hollowbody works best (I use a Raven RP-450 with Schaller Super Golden 50's in it, and a Cort CL-1400 (Seymounr Duncan JB/59 set) & CL-1500 (Schaller Golden 50's set), but most of all you need practice scales, over and over then once more for good measure.
Also for that Trey solo sounds, he likes to start playing at about half way through the scale to give him that floating over the music effect, then going over the top hitting that note (if you have seen phish live you know the note I am talking about)
Pretty darn comprehensive as far as Treys settings.
But what about yours? Try different things?
Thx
Without looking at my gear.....
I know for sure I have my TS808 cranked all the way on the drive (just a hair under all the way, actually), and the volume is either a.) around 10 o'clock, or b.) if I'm keeping my Keeley 4-knob comp on all the time, I have the volume on both the 808 & TS9 cranked all the way too. I was fooling with this setting a few weeks ago and liked it, it's an interesting thing to mess around with.
My other TS9 has the drive at appx 10-11 o'clock, I believe...but again, can't be 100% sure without looking. This one also has the tone knob fairly high too, around 3 o'clock if I remember right. Comparitavely, the 808's tone is not as high....my guess is around 11-12 o'clock.
so I was trying both TS9s with leverl cranked and it seems there is a big volume jump when I enage the second one, even with the comp on. Maybe it's because one is a Ts9 and one is an OD9???
:P thatll happen when you use 2 overdrives at once lol
Yes, I agree, that will happen...
As an example, not a rule, we could use the example of trey - you would be hard-pressed to find another guitarist in history who uses two tubescreamers on at once, and it kind of defines his sound and that influence will show no matter how "dynamic" we get with this setup. Anyway, trey hardly ever has both on at once, 95 percent of the time, he's switching one off to turn the other one on, rather than turning one on without first turning off the other. The volume jump you hear serves as a great means to suddenly cut through the mix a little more than you may have been cutting through before; it is good for suddenly transitioning from rhythm or comping to searing solo.
Quote from: cactuskeeb on August 27, 2009, 12:58:48 AMyou would be hard-pressed to find another guitarist in history who uses two tubescreamers on at once
SRV comes to mind. Isn't that where Trey got the idea in the first place?
QuoteAnyway, trey hardly ever has both on at once, 95 percent of the time, he's switching one off to turn the other one on, rather than turning one on without first turning off the other.
hmm cool
so basicaly hes got one as a clean boost and one dirtier...and uses two if he feels like melting our faces off. got it
Chalkdust torture used to be the one song where you always heard both on at once, throughout the entire piece. And of course the ending to Down With Disease and subsequent, sometimes heavily structured, jamming out of that song. Now, as far as the rest of their live repertoire is concerned, watch videos and look for the "trademark" tap (off), lift, stretch, tap (on) one-legged dance.
Quote from: Walker done done on August 27, 2009, 10:23:12 AM
Quote from: cactuskeeb on August 27, 2009, 12:58:48 AMyou would be hard-pressed to find another guitarist in history who uses two tubescreamers on at once
SRV comes to mind. Isn't that where Trey got the idea in the first place?
The key phrase here is "at once." You can't do that without the compressor following the equation. Trey did not invent this idea (of compressing multiple waves of overdrive into a single, uni-volume, sound). The Rockman Sustainer -- I used one once -- does the same thing as a ross, basically, when you run two turned-on tube screamers into it.
Quote from: cactuskeeb on August 27, 2009, 04:00:57 PM
Quote from: Walker done done on August 27, 2009, 10:23:12 AM
Quote from: cactuskeeb on August 27, 2009, 12:58:48 AMyou would be hard-pressed to find another guitarist in history who uses two tubescreamers on at once
SRV comes to mind. Isn't that where Trey got the idea in the first place?
You can't do that without the compressor following the equation
But I do it all the time! Granted, not with them maxed out on volume, but frequently when soloing I'll have both turned on. Take a listen to our Phish project "Tagliaboo Radley" in the "Your Band" section. I know for sure that I did this on the solos of Ocelot, Julius, Slave, & Chalkdust. During the Divided Sky solo, I had both TS's as well as the overdrive channel on my HRD
and my Keely Comp going at once. Mmmm mmmm mmm tasty! As you can hear, the feedback is sometimes difficult to control with the Hollowbody, but it's fun as hell to ride that wild horse!
You have the keeley comp on...
So, what is it you're disagreeing with me on, again?
Edit: lol, how many sheets to the wind are you with that post, my friend. Admit it.
LOL....nonononono....we're not on the same page. What I was saying is that I have both TUBESCREAMERS on at once, not the Keeley. I had thought you said that you can't have both TS's on at once without the compressor, so I was disagreeing with you on that, saying "but I DO use both at once, without the compressor..." but I think you knew that anyways, so....
I think we're saying the same thing in the end, just taking different roads to get there. :D
CHEERS ;D
Really? What is the effect on volume when you turn the second one on? You don't have the drive and level almost maxed out on the second one, like Trey, do you?
EDIT: I listened to your show -- have you been playing like mad recently, because that was miles above anything else I've heard from you w/ Heavy Dime..? Also, point out a section (could be a couple seconds, I don't care) of your set where you've got both tube screamers on, and no keeley.
Quote from: cactuskeeb on August 30, 2009, 01:35:13 PM
Really? What is the effect on volume when you turn the second one on? You don't have the drive and level almost maxed out on the second one, like Trey, do you?
No, absolutely not. Otherwise, yes, the volume boost would be unbearable (unless, like you said, I had the compressor to buff it afterwards). The effect is more overdrive with a slight volume boost, but not too much of a volume boost when having the other TS9 also engaged. My TS808 has the overdrive set a hair shy of the max, and the TS9 is the one I use for just a slight overdrive. If I remember correctly both volumes are set around 10-11 o'clock, but the 808 is set slightly higher than the TS9, so when I engage it, the 808 gives that big overdrive push and adds a minimal volume increase (which allows for searing cut-through solos). I do use the 808 alone, for something like Chalkdust or Have A Cigar or something like that. Again, I think we're both talking around the same thing just saying it differently. My bad for getting the thread spinning around.
Got it.
Did you see what I added to my last post (I think a few minutes before you replied)?
Quote from: cactuskeeb on August 31, 2009, 12:30:38 PM
Got it.
Did you see what I added to my last post (I think a few minutes before you replied)?
I hadn't seen the edit, but thanks for that, much appreciated. All the stuff you've heard w/ Heavy Dime is from a while ago, so in regards to have I been playing like mad....no, I don't think so (at least no more than normal), but I think the progress you hear must be in the year or two since any online recordings have been posted to myspace or anything. I've gotten VERY lax on uploading stuff, mainly b/c of the time involved, my patience, and my own schedule haven't allowed for it to happen. I should get on posting some recordings of live shows that we've done recently.
Not to mention that we did put in some focus for playing such tunes, as you can imagine you have to, and probably would've done yourself. But to be honest...playing Phish allows me (and probably any other die hard fan) a chance to really bring out some feelings that you may not get to do with a cover band or any other band for that matter - and it's only BECAUSE of the way the music is so well written -
that music (Phish) allows for different playing to happen. The landscape is so much broader, and I think it's a product of that more than anything. It's not to say that I can't play as well with Heavy Dime, it's just - for the most part - that doesn't exist behnid the music that's being played with that band. (edit: I just re-read what I wrote & fully realize it sounds like mashed potatos, so my apologies if that's the case....)
As for the 2 TS's...the Ocelot solo has them both engaged w/out the Keeley, as does the Julius solo, I believe. Quite possibly true on Slave Reprise & Chalkdust, but I can't be sure. I also may've had both on during the 3/4 time part in Tube....but again, can't be sure w/out listening. If I did so in Tube, I defintely didn't have the Keeley on then; I think I first engaged it during the Divided Sky parts towards the end where you hang on that long "A" as the band segues into the final "jam" section. Though there's a chance I turned it on during The Curtain, but I don't think so....
EDIT: I can say for sure that I also have the overdrive channel on my amp engaged (as well as both TS's) during the Chalkdust jam, and also have the other channel engaged as well. I honestly LOVE having that extra overdrive on the HRD. The amp isn't the best but I do endear it, and as much as I try to find something to replace it, I have yet to find one that'll satisfy.