so after getting a graphite pick i now know how trey gets that distinct chirp type sound when he plays notes. pretty cool stuff if you think about it. it was something very subtle i noticed in his playing for years and it always stood out to me.. not sure if anyone knows whan im referring too but you often hear it when he plays (sometimes more then others).. SOAM is a good example, pretty much anything.. i cant think of any other way to describe it other then a "chirp"...i know it is a combo if things but it seems to me now that i got this Adamas i can sort of hear it now. funny how stuff works. anyone know what im referring to? pretty sick..
funny i though these picks were fake at first and now i am in love. dont know how i used mediums before.. love em...i need some more..
Quote from: HunSanity on April 21, 2010, 01:24:18 PM
funny i though these picks were fake at first and now i am in love. dont know how i used mediums before.. love em...i need some more..
I told you that they are addictive! I even use them to play acoustic.
i just re-strung my acoustic last night so ill have to check it out. im sure its sweet.
I got mine...played them for an hour, then went right back to my gator 2mm composites.
maybe it is something i have to get used to. They have like an outer edge on them, where the molding kind of closes, you know? Maybe if i file that off.
I hear you with that edge, Patrick. I'm still stuck on the Golden Gate Mando picks...I like the sound more than the Adamas, and I never use the point of a pick. I read that SRV always used the rounded edge of a pick back when I picked up the guitar so I tried that and have done it even since. The mando picks are three sided rounded edged. The graphite seems to make everything so bright and almost shrill--though I think with some more playing I could dig it. They do have "that sound" though, which is cool.
My favorite, though, is my true Tortoise-shell pick in the same shape as the Golden Gate. I can get any sound I want out of it. Too bad they're illegal.
(http://www.playbetterbluegrass.com/images_products/4418_large.jpg)
why are they illegal?
sorry but this reminded me of that will farrel scene in that ice skating move when he pulls out his hair brush and says its made of "whale bone" freaking hysterical..
yes they do brighten things up (the adamas) but its great as i am playing alot of jazz chords and funk rythems now a days..perfect for me..
It's kind of along the lines of using Ivory or Brazilian Rosewood--there was a ban implemented back in the early '70s on anything being made out of real Hawksbill turtle shell. If you owned it before the ban, it's fine, but nothing "should" be made out of it now. I don't know how old you guys are (I'm 32), but I remember stuff growing up that was made out of tortoise shell--combs and knife handles...stuff like that.
I've heard great things about Tortis picks, though, which are a protein-based material that are apparently very similar to the makeup of turtle shell and are supposed to sound just like it. They're about $20 each...I've seen real tortoise picks upwards of $50 or so.
Quote from: aoguitars on April 23, 2010, 12:00:22 PM
I've seen real tortoise picks upwards of $50 or so.
Holy crap! That's just sillyness right there...
Quote from: strangedesign on April 22, 2010, 02:50:02 PM
Quote from: YouEnjoyMyReba on April 22, 2010, 09:59:21 AM
why are they illegal?
Quote from: Walker done done on April 23, 2010, 04:50:58 PM
Quote from: aoguitars on April 23, 2010, 12:00:22 PM
I've seen real tortoise picks upwards of $50 or so.
Holy crap! That's just sillyness right there...
Most of the stuff I've tried in my life that was illegal, ended up being pretty good. Not everything, but 9 times out of 10, good....
^ can't disagree with that, I 'spose. ;D
Quote from: patrickstefanski on April 22, 2010, 08:49:01 AM
I got mine...played them for an hour, then went right back to my gator 2mm composites.
maybe it is something i have to get used to. They have like an outer edge on them, where the molding kind of closes, you know? Maybe if i file that off.
You got the bad kind. Search the forum for adamas and you'll find a long thread I did on this subject years ago. It's pointless to read it, just skip to the second page, and look at the last post; there's a picture I took of the right kind of adamas 2mm you want: you'll notice that there a) there isn't an excess outer rim b) it probably (most definitely) looks rougher (not smooth) than yours and c) notice how it polishes itself at the very tip from constant contact with strings. That's called quality graphite. I'm sure I'll have to make the same reply again in a couple weeks, so don't sweat it if you forget all this information I gave you. ;)
cactus,
I am pretty sure that he didn't get the wrong kind (it is possible... ahughgh...just not from me), however that is not to say they may not be what works for him. I looked up that photo you posted awhile back (those are the ones and the only ones I have ever seen or used). They do have a slightly tapered edge to them that also seems to smooth or wear after much use. Also the reverse side has the 2 adamas/ovation flourish thingy's. This hole topic is pretty interesting as I would imagine everyone picks slightly or drastically different. We all seem to have tried the same couple of picks as well. 2mm Black Gators etc... It is interesting to try both one after the other and hear the differences. For instance if Jerry did actually use these I could see why. They do add just a bit of a bright edge to the sound especially when using single coils/coil tap and the pointy edge. Good thing either Trey or Jerry liked to use a quarter or something like that. Then again that would be cheaper than the adamas.
I will say I really liked the pick that AO posted. Those really seemed cool and would be great for the player that does use the all rounded sides.
If anyone knows where to get those let me know.
This is where I usually order a bunch of the Golden Gates...though search around, they aren't hard to find:
http://www.firstqualitymusic.com/c_10/p_PK14.aspx
They're 1.5mm, though they might make heavier ones. With different finger pressures, I feel like I can get anything out of them.
And Sour D you speak the truth! Illegal often equals awesome...at one time or another...
Quote from: raisingfreen on April 25, 2010, 09:42:51 PM
cactus,
I am pretty sure that he didn't get the wrong kind (it is possible... ahughgh...just not from me), however that is not to say they may not be what works for him. I looked up that photo you posted awhile back (those are the ones and the only ones I have ever seen or used). They do have a slightly tapered edge to them that also seems to smooth or wear after much use. Also the reverse side has the 2 adamas/ovation flourish thingy's. This hole topic is pretty interesting as I would imagine everyone picks slightly or drastically different. We all seem to have tried the same couple of picks as well. 2mm Black Gators etc... It is interesting to try both one after the other and hear the differences. For instance if Jerry did actually use these I could see why. They do add just a bit of a bright edge to the sound especially when using single coils/coil tap and the pointy edge. Good thing either Trey or Jerry liked to use a quarter or something like that. Then again that would be cheaper than the adamas.
I will say I really liked the pick that AO posted. Those really seemed cool and would be great for the player that does use the all rounded sides.
If anyone knows where to get those let me know.
freen, I'm not saying he got the wrong kind. Notice I said *bad* kind. It's the same f'ing pick but differences in the graphite are there nonetheless: the graphite in the good kind is softer, and doesn't sound all plasticy like the harder graphite in the bad kind. I have a plethora of both kinds of adamas graphite 2mm picks. The camera that captured the photo I posted on here years ago was borrowed. I will borrow another one, and show you. Or, I wouldn't be adverse to mailing one of each kind to either Walker or Poster, since they have the right equipment to be able to really hear the difference. Or, I could just be ignored and unbelieved, and remain the only guy on here whose "Chirp" is smooth.
[/quote]
freen, I'm not saying he got the wrong kind. Notice I said *bad* kind. It's the same f'ing pick but differences in the graphite are there nonetheless: the graphite in the good kind is softer, and doesn't sound all plasticy like the harder graphite in the bad kind. I have a plethora of both kinds of adamas graphite 2mm picks. The camera that captured the photo I posted on here years ago was borrowed. I will borrow another one, and show you. Or, I wouldn't be adverse to mailing one of each kind to either Walker or Poster, since they have the right equipment to be able to really hear the difference. Or, I could just be ignored and unbelieved, and remain the only guy on here whose "Chirp" is smooth.
[/quote]
agreed and rep'd cactus humungous.
ive had both good and bad graphite picks. from both adamas, and other manufacturers. some have a lip around the edge, some are completely inflexible, others have a little play in them. sometimes it varies from bag to bag, probably just bad production years or sets or something.
iam sure there are counterfeit picks around though. they are so easy to print on, if there is any money in there, there is a counterfeit alternative.
we are unfortunately bound to a globalized world economy run by small network of international finance oligarchs and as a result, have created a lucrative counterfeit industry, no only encouraged by the Chinese, but also by every cheap bastard on the planet.
iam extremely picky about the picks i use. the skunky ganj picks are workin like a charm. i like the feel of a big nug under my finger ya know?
now i just cant get all the same sounds out of anything else.
however, i wouldnt be apposed to slay a monster alligator turtle to see if it would sound better? like beowulf. just jump on that mean bastards back start snapping tortoise parts.
youd have to go hand to turtle paw, as using a blade or firearm would damage the goods. ha ha ha HA HA HA HAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHA <end evil laughter>
lol. Rob, I can certainly understand what you're saying most of the time and picture it in my mind but, nevertheless, whether there is a reality somewhere that substantiates anything you describe... ;D
It is well documented on the webs that there's no reason why they should have discontinued Adamas 2mm graphites--the demand was, and still is, huge. The rumor is that for whatever reason, they weren't getting any more material from the graphite mine (maybe it was mined out). If google them (the picks) you'll find out that at one point, dunlop suddenly and supposedly stumbled upon a huge stock of them in storage that no one was aware of (the customer service people at dunlop gave this story). I think this stock is merely dunlop making cheap knockoffs of the originals, in response to the overwhelming demand.
Quote from: cactuskeeb on April 26, 2010, 08:18:22 PM
. I think this stock is merely dunlop making cheap knockoffs of the originals, in response to the overwhelming demand.
That would make sense. Isnt Bradshaw with Dunlop now? I think ever dunlop product ive ever owned has either been traded/sold/or gutted and moded into oblivion. Their shit just doesnt sound that great anymore. Its all those wonky chinese components, er Taiwanese.
Believe it or not, I am not a small Japanese women. Went to church where the blinkin light was... Parked right by an Olympic sized swimmin' pool. -Col. Bruce Hampton Ret.
I think cactus is on to something. Now that I think of it I have some that feel just a bit different than others. I have never actually heard the chirp either. If this is a whole knockoff conspiracy I would think they (Dunlop) would have been only affecting a small percentage of players as a whole (the entire pick buying industry).
This stuff is getting out of hand, chirps, turtles and such. I sometimes miss the days when I used to fold up a business card and pick with the heavy paper stock.
Anybody want some picks with a 50/50 chance of getting a good chirp on?
iam willing to bet the counterfeiters are on this very forum.
col. mustard in the lobby, with the wrench.
Just out of curiosity how would one go about making a counterfeit pick such as this one?
What equipment would be required and how much does it all cost? Where do you get the materials from?
How do you do the embossments and the cutting? How do you get bags printed with the right logos and barcodes?
And after all that, how exactly do you make a profit to the rather small percentage of players that actually use/purchase the counterfeit picks?
Just sayin, what a undertaking that must be.
Quote from: raisingfreen on April 26, 2010, 10:27:42 PM
Just out of curiosity how would one go about making a counterfeit pick such as this one?
What equipment would be required and how much does it all cost? Where do you get the materials from?
How do you do the embossments and the cutting? How do you get bags printed with the right logos and barcodes?
And after all that, how exactly do you make a profit to the rather small percentage of players that actually use/purchase the counterfeit picks?
Just sayin, what a undertaking that must be.
Dude there are manufacturers in china that could clone one from a couple of digital pictures. In fact, youll find most everybody just has there shit made at least partially in china. You could get a plastic languedoc if you want one. Buuut i bet youd have to order about 5000 of them. So ordering a load of knockoff picks would not be difficult in the least.
Find any company that does mediation for chinese manufacturers and inquire in an email. Guaranteed you could find multiple sources within a few short hours. There are manufacturers that specialize in molded plastics, and undoubtedly, much of there business comes from foreign investors looking to shake out a profit. Go buy a "Support Our Troops" band at a gas station, flip it over and 10/10 times itll say, " Made In China"
Hell I used to PLAY a languedoc knock off from Korea called a "Volencia Custom" and it was pretty great actually. Ebony fretboard, swapped out for prs black dragon 2 pickups, cts pots, it sounded great for 350 bucks. Heres a pic of it before i added a fugly wooden tailpiece :0P
(http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc242/eldertooth/guitar10-1.jpg)
Quote from: raisingfreen on April 26, 2010, 10:27:42 PM
Just out of curiosity how would one go about making a counterfeit pick such as this one?
What equipment would be required and how much does it all cost? Where do you get the materials from?
How do you do the embossments and the cutting? How do you get bags printed with the right logos and barcodes?
And after all that, how exactly do you make a profit to the rather small percentage of players that actually use/purchase the counterfeit picks?
Just sayin, what a undertaking that must be.
Now I know how they fund the spraying of chemtrails. Counterfeit adamas picks. And they hired Jerry and Trey to market these to us. How could we be so stupid!
All I know is the picks I got are sweet ass...im very confident that are real. ...while i agree tat there are warehouses in china that can make whatever you marrawana like a shamwow perhaps?, I just don't see the likelihood of someone counterfeiting picks like they are Rolex watches or IPods...i have been a "whats more likely" guy lately...
now if tyrone opens up his coat this weekend when i am up in nyc and it is layerd with adamas picks ill be into it..
in the grand scheme of things, a few guitar players that are big enough nerds to even know that these things exist is a rather small group compared to an iPod buyer... not to mention the sound I now get is so similar to certain tones I have heard form players that use them that it HAS to be..
only reason i am commenting btw is because i actually thought the ones i got WERE fake so i did much research and thinking..hence my thoughts..i just didnt realize they werent more like a rock and more like a plastic rock..
Seems to me that its pretty logical that something that is no longer made can still be floating around. its even easy to get a piece of the berlin wall now a days...
i mean if these things are impossible to get them then how does Trey have them? I know he is a guitar hero and a millionaire and all, but still..no one has to answer this im just thinking out load.. It's really not a big deal...
I wasn't telling you guys this so you could take it and snowball it into an Asian conspiracy. I laughed my ass off, yes, and thus am very appreciative for the ensuing comments to my post above but the point is very simple and I'm afraid it is still not clear to anyone.
Hun, I'm not saying there's a magnanimous difference between the rough-surfaced kind and the smooth, almost plasticy surface ones. It takes a skilled ear just to hear the difference (there's also the issue of the smooth-surfaced ones getting away from you, literally, because of sweat or beer-bottle-condensation buildup on your fingers/hand).
Look, one kind is better than the other; the difference is slight but I think part of what this forum is about is having the best gear possible. If anyone replies to this, giving me some altruistic lecture about how I'm getting too specific with my thoughts or too myopic with my gear choices, gabble-dee-gok, I promise I will never post another thing like this, where all I am doing is providing information that *for me* was extremely hard to come by and took me quite a while to figure out.
to be honest i didnt even know who brough up the "asian" thing.. i just hopped on here and read a few of the last posts.. wasnt referencing anyone anything in particular.. just the fact that the picks i ended up with off of ebay are adamas and seem pretty damn real to me, but i am far from an expert on picks i am just trying to practice and get better......its all good. its all a matter of opinon and convo. but yeah i didnt even see that you wrote that so no offense..i just found the topic as a whole interesting as i felt that they were fakes origionally before i knew what to expect when i recieved them.. i just wanted to say Shamwow to be honest. ha
okay so now that i read your post i see what you were saying.. got you. yeah the ones i got in the mail are not really polished looking but more so brushed.. and say adamas etc on them.. really stiff and imposs to bend, but when you drop it it sounds like plastic. so whichever ones those are and the ones i got and actually think they sound pretty sweet. hence my whole chirp comment. they really add a nice ring which is what i was talkin bout..
wow someone smited me for saying i liked the picks i got and didnt think they were fake. hahah this shite is too much out here boy.
Holy crap. This didn't get too out of hand, did it? We're talking about a fucking pick.
Santana uses a quarter.
Knopfler uses his fingers (I've heard there are Taiwanese knockoffs of these).
Discuss.
exactly AO... Exactly.
if i didnt have a frealing desk job id be practicing and not talking bout practice like AI.
Speaking of ole carlos,
i just picked up the 2 disc greatest hits santana album
and all i gotta say is, 80's santana is something i dont id ever heard.
their record company musta just handed them a box full of spandex, hair spray, and synths.
Quote from: aoguitars on April 27, 2010, 03:39:04 PM
Knopfler uses his fingers (I've heard there are Taiwanese knockoffs of these).
where can i get them? how much? HOW MUCH!?!
Quote from: aoguitars on April 27, 2010, 03:39:04 PM
Holy crap. This didn't get too out of hand, did it? We're talking about a fucking pick.
Santana uses a quarter.
Knopfler uses his fingers (I've heard there are Taiwanese knockoffs of these).
Discuss.
Knopfler's fingers are far more important to his sound than any aspect of his rig. Herco Flex picks are essential to the Jimmy Page sound. The Adamas graphite 2mm picks, and the way Trey holds them (a very light grip, in between the bottom of his thumb [which never moves] and side of the index finger) makes his clean tones that much more unique than anyone else's...you just have to try it, preferably with a hollow body--that's why this thread was started: someone found out how significant this particular pick is to a lot of Trey's signature tones (note that Trey admits all the time to using different gauge picks, so let's not assume this Adamas 2mm thing is the end-all-be-all). Anyway, I want to emphasize as well that the right-hand technique, the wrist, and the arm, make all the difference in how a pick sounds.
EDIT: After taking a two year hiatus from playing the guitar, I returned to it determined to reinvent the way I held a pick, because I always felt that my old style, which was to pinch the pick between my thumb and bottom of index finder, didn't allow me to put the emphasis more on my wrist, all the way up to the shoulder, when I really needed to (for attacking notes). So I learned Trey's style. It was excruciating at times, and never seemed to be working for me but I just kept practicing more as a way to (hopefully) really make the change to this new picking style. Two years later, it's feels right, and I never have the urge to go back. My playing sounds completely different, and there is so much more nuance I feel I can add to the notes.
I agree and disagree a little that last post, Cactus. Wen you're talking about Knopfler, I completely agree. However, when he uses a pick, he still sounds exactly the same.
When we're talking about guys with unique tone (and a small gripe--there's no such thing as being "much more unique" than anything)--guys like Jerry, Knopfler, Trey, Jimmy Page, Clapton, Santana--they could be playing with a plastic spork and still sound the same--I think you nailed it when you said that it's the technique that is just as (or even more) important to the sound than the material being used. The thing that we're missing in this conversation is that BOTH hands are essential to a player's sound, and most importantly, their EARS (and their influences, if you ask me). I find I can get that Trey "chirp" out of my Golden Gate picks--I think it's all in the string attack.
I look at it like this--say one of you went to jam with some friends and you can't find YOUR pick. So someone tosses you whatever they're playing and it's nothing like yours. What do you do? I think anyone who's put millions of hours into playing (like all of us on here) will inherently change their technique to get their sound out of that pick. Changing pressures, holding positions, all of it. That's your sound or the sound you're going for, and you'll find it with whatever. I think we've all had to improvise before a gig or jam once or twice with whatever we could find.
When I brought a bass backstage to Mike in Albany in '97, we were in the green room before the show, where their rehearsal rig was set up. Trey had his small practice board and there was a pile of picks next to his old 'Doc...all different brands and sizes. I have no doubt that he could use anything down to a Fender Thin and still sound virtually the same. I think like anyone else, he found something he likes, he's confident in it so he uses it all the time.
I think the best example of this is Charlie Parker, "Jazz at Massey Hall" back in the early '50s. Bird had sold his sax to due to drug addiction, and last minute had to find a sax for the show--Dizzy Gillespie ended up buying him a plastic sax to play the show with. It remains one of the greatest and most important live jazz performances ever recorded.
I actually think this is a great conversation as to how everyone on here thinks about tone and how people do what. I don't, however, see the need for things to get a little heated when we're talking about something as subjective as tone. Especially when Hun's original post was just him being super psyched that he found the sound he wanted out of a graphite pick that may or may not have been made out of rare groundhog pubes in China.
Quote from: aoguitars on April 28, 2010, 09:29:43 AM
When we're talking about guys with unique tone (and a small gripe--there's no such thing as being "much more unique" than anything)--
From the American Heritage Dictionary:
"Usage Note : For many grammarians, unique is the paradigmatic absolute term, a shibboleth that distinguishes between those who understand that such a term cannot be modified by an adverb of degree or a comparative adverb and those who do not. These grammarians would say that a thing is either unique or not unique and that it is therefore incorrect to say that something is very unique or more unique than something else. Most of the Usage Panel supports this traditional view. Eighty percent disapprove of the sentence Her designs are quite unique in today's fashions. But as the language of advertising in particular attests, unique is widely used as a synonym for "worthy of being considered in a class by itself, extraordinary," and if so construed it may arguably be modified. In fact, unique appears as a modified adjective in the work of many reputable writers. A travel writer states that "Chicago is no less unique an American city than New York or San Francisco," for example, and the critic Fredric Jameson writes "The great modern writers have all been defined by the invention or production of rather unique styles." Although these examples of the qualification of unique are defensible, writers should be aware that such constructions are liable to incur the censure of some readers." :P
Quote from: aoguitars on April 28, 2010, 09:29:43 AM
I actually think this is a great conversation as to how everyone on here thinks about tone and how people do what. I don't, however, see the need for things to get a little heated when we're talking about something as subjective as tone. Especially when Hun's original post was just him being super psyched that he found the sound he wanted out of a graphite pick that may or may not have been made out of rare groundhog pubes in China.
I'm confused: When did things get heated? :-\
^^^ That.....just happened.
And that....was pretty damn funny. :D
I agree with AO & Cactus though, the conversation itself is the best part of this whole thing, because it gets ideas circulating, gets people thinking, trying different things, searching for different sounds they may or may not know they like or dislike until they find them. It's a beautiful thing. I enjoy this forum for stuff such as this. I used one of the Adamas's at practice last night, given to me by raisingfreen (ty!), and enjoyed it. Alas, I found I sounded quite the same as when I used my Alligator 2mm's. Who'da thunk it = I did. It's very much in my left and right hand as previously said, and less so in the pick.
And how about that Clay Buchholz last night! Nice to see him manning up, especially at a time when the rest of the rotation can't tell their ass from their elbow. Kinda sad (or scary) when the thought of adding Dice-K to the rotation gives you a ray of promise. That's when you know the rotation isn't where it should be. And on a side note, Jay Bay now is now tied w/ Papi for home runs on the year. Heard that from my buddy Shoe & thought it was pretty funny.
Sorry for the thread hijack.
Quote from: Walker done done on April 28, 2010, 11:24:57 AM
I agree with AO & Cactus though, the conversation itself is the best part of this whole thing, because it gets ideas circulating, gets people thinking, trying different things, searching for different sounds they may or may not know they like or dislike until they find them. It's a beautiful thing. I enjoy this forum for stuff such as this.
Wow,
that was well said.
Iam still gonna kill a giant turtle! :D Slay the beast as an offering to the tone lords of the outer realm.
$20 says you lose a body part in the process. :o
Not if I manage to be on horseback when I spear the terrapin. ;D
I stand corrected. Didn't see that one coming, touche. You could also prevent loss of limb by throwing a heavy net from a chopper, though there'd be cause for concern over your unnecessary carbon footprint by utlizing this method. Seems a bit "Hollywood" for just one turtle too. Horseback looks to be the greenest way to go. Good luck.
(http://www.asdb.net/public/Graphics/Posters/LoveThisThread.jpg)