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At the risk of getting too confusing, please explain! Great info to have, I'm sure many will benefit from it! :D
For those of you who want to give the true bypass loopers a shot without having to spend a fortune, checkout www.loop-master.com/
They can build you about anything. It also doesn't take 8-10 months to get back. Mine was at my door in 2-3 weeks
Quote from: strangedesign on October 30, 2007, 09:29:21 AM
For those of you who want to give the true bypass loopers a shot without having to spend a fortune, checkout www.loop-master.com/
They can build you about anything. It also doesn't take 8-10 months to get back. Mine was at my door in 2-3 weeks
The effects loop boxes look very useful, thanks for sharing the link! I am a little confused about this true bypass looper and I was curious if either of you could answer my question. I have a SKB PS 45 board, and I have never tried using the extra effects loops on the board, would this serve the same purpose as the switcher box? Thank you
-Tom
Quote from: tomasmaclennan on November 19, 2010, 05:26:33 PM
The effects loop boxes look very useful, thanks for sharing the link! I am a little confused about this true bypass looper and I was curious if either of you could answer my question. I have a SKB PS 45 board, and I have never tried using the extra effects loops on the board, would this serve the same purpose as the switcher box? Thank you
I have 1 of those boards that i put my boomerang and jamman on. I never used the loops on it but I just ran downstairs to check it out. The one I have has 2 seperate loops. There is no way of switching them in or out of your signal path. The only thing it looks like you can do with them is maybe feed 2 amps with different effects for each amp. I also remember the pedal power part of those boards are real noisy. Maybe mostly because of the power supply that comes with it. I hooked it up using a 1spot plugged into it and it was much quieter. With the loopmaster style bypass looper you can switch effects out of your signal path when you are not using them. Also check out WOBO electronics.
Eventually I'd like to get one of those 6 switch loopmasters and seperate each of my pedals into their own loops. Butim not sure which board would work best for everything or how to rig it so it's not a mess of cabels. Suggestions?
Quote from: tomasmaclennan on November 19, 2010, 05:26:33 PM
Quote from: strangedesign on October 30, 2007, 09:29:21 AM
For those of you who want to give the true bypass loopers a shot without having to spend a fortune, checkout www.loop-master.com/
They can build you about anything. It also doesn't take 8-10 months to get back. Mine was at my door in 2-3 weeks
The effects loop boxes look very useful, thanks for sharing the link! I am a little confused about this true bypass looper and I was curious if either of you could answer my question. I have a SKB PS 45 board, and I have never tried using the extra effects loops on the board, would this serve the same purpose as the switcher box? Thank you
-Tom
Nice profile pic, Tom! That's really all I have to say here..
Quote from: Walker done done on November 22, 2010, 01:52:40 PM
Quote from: tomasmaclennan on November 19, 2010, 05:26:33 PM
Quote from: strangedesign on October 30, 2007, 09:29:21 AM
For those of you who want to give the true bypass loopers a shot without having to spend a fortune, checkout www.loop-master.com/
They can build you about anything. It also doesn't take 8-10 months to get back. Mine was at my door in 2-3 weeks
The effects loop boxes look very useful, thanks for sharing the link! I am a little confused about this true bypass looper and I was curious if either of you could answer my question. I have a SKB PS 45 board, and I have never tried using the extra effects loops on the board, would this serve the same purpose as the switcher box? Thank you
-Tom
Nice profile pic, Tom! That's really all I have to say here..
Sour D - Thank you for the useful info, I am considering selling that board and just getting a moderately small, because I only run 4-5 effects at a time, but don't really know if I should get a nice power strip and a onespot for the 9v pedals, or a fancy power conditioner and cut my own board and put velcro surfacing on it.
Walker- Thanks man! Duane is the greatest of all. And he did it with just a guitar and amp!
Picture- 1 Foot cables and gaff tape to keep the power and patch cables in order work well for me on my board.
Let me see if I can clear up some of the stuff being said in here and shed some light on True Bypass (TB):
True Bypassing of pedals means just that--your signal is completely (truly) bypassed through a pedal, without it running through the circuit. Until rather recently, most pedals were not TB, which means that your signal has been coming out of the guitar, through the circuits of all of your pedals, and out to the amp. You step on a pedal, your signal gets "effected" and you hear it. However, when you turn that pedal off, your signal is still running through the circuitry and the components (good or bad) that the pedal is comprised of...which results in what we gloriously call "tone suck." You notice this when you take that Wah out of your chain and your sound gets better. So TB pedals utilize a different kind of stomp switch with a 3rd pole (3PDT) that, when the effect is Off, bypasses the whole circuit...your signal is coming into the pedal, through this switch, and directly to the output to the next pedal...your signal never sees that effect when Off.
So what do you do when you have all of these effects that you really dig in your chain and they're a huge part of your tone, but they're not TB? You can deal with it and learn to work with it, or you can go the route of TB Pedal Switchers (or Loopers). This is simply a box with stomp switches, inputs/outputs, and LEDs to tell you what loops are on--so it has power, but only to run the LEDs. Otherwise it's all analog. These can range in size from 1 single loop and up...as long as you want, really. With the Switcher, your signal comes in from your guitar and out to a pedal (or chain of pedals) and back into the Switcher. That's one Loop. Since it's wired with a 3PDT switch, when you turn it Off (on the Switcher), that effect is completely out of your chain. This effectively turns your favorite non-TB pedal into TB. So then, you go through the Switcher and all of the loops that you want, and then finally out of the Switcher to your amp. The beauty of this setup, as well, is you can pair certain effects together that you always use together, yet be able to turn them both On/Off with one stomp--no more tap-dancing. Say you always use your Tube Screamer with a little Compression...you wire the two together into one Loop, the pedals themselves are left always On, but then you can add or subtract them from your signal by stomping that Loop's switch. This also allows you to mount your pedals behind you in a rack, if you prefer, and just have the Switcher in front of you. Or it can all be incorporated into your pedal board. I'll post a picture of the Switchers that I make, as well, to give you an idea of what I'm talking about.
Now, as awesome as TB sounds on paper, some people don't dig how it changes their sound (at least at first), since they're so used to their pedals sounding a certain way after their signal has been muffled or effected by the previous effect in the chain...something to think about.
As for power supplies, I'm a huge fan of the Voodoo Labs stuff for the smaller effect rigs that most of us are using. They're not exactly cheap, but they make wiring pedal boards a dream and they reduce some serious noise while giving your pedals solid, clean juice. Those One-Spots and Daisy Chains are really not that great for your tone, since by the time power gets to the last pedal, it's not nearly the voltage that it should be.
PON, to answer "which board would work best for everything or how to rig it so it's not a mess of cables," (without going the route of a custom pedal board) the Pedal Train boards are killer in this respect. They're not a boatload of money, they're light and rugged aluminum (with a case or bag), they're built to accept the Voodoo Labs power supplies (underneath, which is awesome), and they're really easy to wire. It's a series of horizontal slats with space between them, so your patches can run under everything, and up to your pedal. Nice and clean. Then it's just a question of getting cables made to the right length (shortest possible between effects) so there's minimal slack and minimal distance for your signal to travel.
Tom (and Sour) if I understand it correctly, your SKB Pedalboards have separate loops to pair certain effects together, but like Sour D said, you don't have a way to take one or both of them out of your chain...so your signal is still going through them whether those effects are On or Off.
Hope this helps!
damn andrew, way to be completely vague. can someone give us a little detail on how all this works, please?
AO, thanks man, I actually have a pedal train board, I'm wondering how you'd integrate something like a six switch loop box into it cleanly?
He is the man. Period.
Quote from: patrickstefanski on November 30, 2010, 03:40:50 PM
damn andrew, way to be completely vague. can someone give us a little detail on how all this works, please?
Yeah, sorry. I actually have no clue as to how any of this works. I think it's just magic, rainbows and gumdrops.
Quote from: picture_of_nectar on November 30, 2010, 08:26:33 PM
AO, thanks man, I actually have a pedal train board, I'm wondering how you'd integrate something like a six switch loop box into it cleanly?
Cool. The way I've done it for people (and I'm searching for pictures that are eluding me right now) is to put the 6-loop box along the bottom. Then, since you no longer have to orientate the pedals so you can access them with your feet (except for Wahs, Volumes, Whammys, Expression pedals), I get all Tetris on them and fit them all above the Switcher in whatever way fits cleanly. This way, you can still access them and tweak parameters in a live setting, but you're bringing them in and out of your signal with the Switcher.
Does that answer your question?
I'm finishing up a 3-loop Switcher right now...I'll post pics so this makes a little more sense (though I'm sure you all know what they look like).
So you Velcro the switchbox to the top of the pedaltrain?
Exactly. Along the bottom, so all of the effects would be above it.
If I may PON, there is a link on the main site www.pedalboards.com (http://www.pedalboards.com), and that site will show you a bunch of pics of the exact thing we are talking about there. They call their version a "true bypass strip", but it's the same thing. Here is one pic, not on a pedaltrain, one of their powered boards, but it gives an idea of how you could set something like this up:
(http://www.pedalboards.com/C-Smith.gif)
As you can see, the true bypass looper/strip activates the individual effects, the boxes themselves are always on. So as AO says, you could just make your looper or whatever you want to call it very accessible and leave everything else on.
Yeah right on. I have seen pics of boards like that over on TGP.
I guess I'm just wondering how I'd rig the loopstrip onto my current pedaltrain so I don't have to buy a whole new board. I have the medium size pedaltrain and I'm thinking it's prolly too small since it's full of pedals. But I was wondering about mounting the loopstrip to the front ot of the board with screws or something rather then on top with the rest of the pedals.
Quote from: picture_of_nectar on December 02, 2010, 01:39:55 PM
Yeah right on. I have seen pics of boards like that over on TGP.
I guess I'm just wondering how I'd rig the loopstrip onto my current pedaltrain so I don't have to buy a whole new board. I have the medium size pedaltrain and I'm thinking it's prolly too small since it's full of pedals. But I was wondering about mounting the loopstrip to the front ot of the board with screws or something rather then on top with the rest of the pedals.
Oh I see, so you have the pedaltrain 1 or 2? I've gone through a couple different pedaltrains. I started with the pt2 and then decided I was going to the pro. Now, I have downsized my rig significantly and am using the pedaltrain jr. Regardless, if you were to mount it to the front somehow, it would have to come off every time you wanted to move the board as it probably won't fit in your case, whether it be the soft case or hard case. That being said, you could always 'spec it out' to be sure that it would fit. Get the dimensions of your looper, add cable ends and determine whether it would go in your case I guess,.....I'm not sure what else you could do, aside from, as you say, getting another board.
What brand of board is that shown above, anyone know? I like tge clean look of how the cables are hidden under what looks like foam or somethin.
Quote from: picture_of_nectar on December 02, 2010, 10:52:15 PM
What brand of board is that shown above, anyone know? I like tge clean look of how the cables are hidden under what looks like foam or somethin.
It's a pre-wired powered board from that pedalboards.com place that I mentioned above. I believe you send them specs on what you want and they design the custom board, powered and everything. You just insert your pedals and away you go. Check out their site, as I said, there are a ton of good pics of people's boards on there.
Is it really necessary to have everything be true bypass? I have been considering a loop master switch for some of my effects (mostly the Boomerang, Whammy II, and my H&K Rotosphere), but I think my tone already sounds really good. As I understand, if you're using many pedals, sometimes its good to have a pedal or 2 throughout the chain that isn't true bypass so it creates a buffer, or something, and strengths your signal as it's going through so many feet of cable and many different effects. Does anybody know about this?
Also, I have never used my amp's effects loop, but if I did put some pedals in the loop, would I still need a true bypass switch? I am considering putting the 2 at the end of my chain (Rang, and Rotosphere) in the effects loop. And maybe my reverb too. Would that be wrong?
Quote from: IamWILSON on December 03, 2010, 06:43:06 PM
Is it really necessary to have everything be true bypass? I have been considering a loop master switch for some of my effects (mostly the Boomerang, Whammy II, and my H&K Rotosphere), but I think my tone already sounds really good. As I understand, if you're using many pedals, sometimes its good to have a pedal or 2 throughout the chain that isn't true bypass so it creates a buffer, or something, and strengths your signal as it's going through so many feet of cable and many different effects. Does anybody know about this?
Also, I have never used my amp's effects loop, but if I did put some pedals in the loop, would I still need a true bypass switch? I am considering putting the 2 at the end of my chain (Rang, and Rotosphere) in the effects loop. And maybe my reverb too. Would that be wrong?
I've been having a similar conversation with my guitar tech lately, and all I can tell you for a certainty, is that I would never run a boomerang or a whammy without them being in a true bypass looper, they are just noisy in a chain I feel. I have hear the argument that a buffer is a good thing, and it might be, I think maybe it depends on what else is in the rig, order, etc. I have everything true bypass except for my vibe pedal, and I'm a pretty big fan of my tone right now, so take that for what's it is worth I guess.
Quote from: ColForbin on December 05, 2010, 10:12:35 PM
Quote from: IamWILSON on December 03, 2010, 06:43:06 PM
Is it really necessary to have everything be true bypass? I have been considering a loop master switch for some of my effects (mostly the Boomerang, Whammy II, and my H&K Rotosphere), but I think my tone already sounds really good. As I understand, if you're using many pedals, sometimes its good to have a pedal or 2 throughout the chain that isn't true bypass so it creates a buffer, or something, and strengths your signal as it's going through so many feet of cable and many different effects. Does anybody know about this?
Also, I have never used my amp's effects loop, but if I did put some pedals in the loop, would I still need a true bypass switch? I am considering putting the 2 at the end of my chain (Rang, and Rotosphere) in the effects loop. And maybe my reverb too. Would that be wrong?
I've been having a similar conversation with my guitar teck lately, and all I can tell you for a certainty, is that I would never run a boomerang or a whammy without them being in a true bypass looper, they are just noisy in a chain I feel. I have hear the argument that a buffer is a good thing, and it might be, I think maybe it depends on what else is in the rig, order, etc. I have everything true bypass except for my vibe pedal, and I'm a pretty big fan of my tone right now, so take that for what's it is worth I guess.
Yeah, I probably should get one and put the whammy and boomerang through it...the only thing I don't like about that is the Whammy is at the beginning of my chain and the Boomerang is at the end, so if I do it with one of those strips, I'd still have to add all my other pedals that are in between those 2 pedals into one switch as well, or I'd have to get a couple single switches to place one on the Whammy and then maybe run the Rang and Rotosphere through the same switch at the end of the chain. I just don't need to spend any more money on effects when my goal right now is to save up for a custom made guitar.
Quote from: IamWILSON on December 07, 2010, 04:01:10 AM
Yeah, I probably should get one and put the whammy and boomerang through it...the only thing I don't like about that is the Whammy is at the beginning of my chain and the Boomerang is at the end, so if I do it with one of those strips, I'd still have to add all my other pedals that are in between those 2 pedals into one switch as well, or I'd have to get a couple single switches to place one on the Whammy and then maybe run the Rang and Rotosphere through the same switch at the end of the chain. I just don't need to spend any more money on effects when my goal right now is to save up for a custom made guitar.
What's your chain look like? I don't believe it's overly advisable to have your whammy at the start, is there a reason you like it therh? And by the way, what's the rotosphere like? I've always wondered and have never had the opportunity to play one.
My chain:
Carlo Robelli hollowbody (like a PRS double cutaway) or my Clapton Strat > Whammy II > RMC 6 > TS9 > TS9 (both are from '82) > Keeley Comp > Ernie Ball Vol Jr > Fulltone Supa Trem > Nova Repeater > Ibanez DML20 > Boomerang + > H&K Rotosphere > Alesis Microverb > Egnater Rebel 20
I like the Whammy at the beginning of the chain because I believe that allows it to easily track my clean signal and produce a clean sound. I've tried it in different areas of my chain and that was where I thought it sounded the best. Maybe I should try it again after my compressor, but I hate messing with the chain because then I spend hours testing shit and should be shedding tunes instead.
I really love the Rotosphere!!! I got it on Ebay for $250 (which was a total steal - I usually see them go for over 3 bills), and I took my DejaVibe2 out of my chain when I got it. Although I'm thinking about readding, or selling it. If I readd it to my chain, I'll probably then do some more experimenting with placement of the Whammy pedal. Anyway, the Rotosphere really does do a great job of replicating the Leslie sound. It has a slow/fast switch and breaker switch so you can slow the rotations down to a halt, but the effect remains on. You can even adjust the volume mix and speeds of the "treble and bass horns" separately by using a knob and a couple trim pots. It has stereo ins and outs (which I really need to try out some time). But at the same time, that is all it does - ACTS JUST LIKE A LESLIE. So I don't use it very often. In using a tremolo or vibe pedal, I feel like you can adjust them to create way different sounds than the Rotosphere, and that is why I struggle with thinking about selling my vibe pedal. But I do know that if my Rotosphere broke, I would probably suck it up and buy another one.
So I emailed on one of those loopstrip integrated custom boards and the guy wasn't $600-$800 for one to hold 8 pedals. Whoa...
Quote from: picture_of_nectar on December 07, 2010, 12:46:08 PM
So I emailed on one of those loopstrip integrated custom boards and the guy wasn't $600-$800 for one to hold 8 pedals. Whoa...
Holy crap! :o
Quote from: IamWILSON on December 07, 2010, 12:41:46 PM
My chain:
Carlo Robelli hollowbody (like a PRS double cutaway) or my Clapton Strat > Whammy II > RMC 6 > TS9 > TS9 (both are from '82) > Keeley Comp > Ernie Ball Vol Jr > Fulltone Supa Trem > Nova Repeater > Ibanez DML20 > Boomerang + > H&K Rotosphere > Alesis Microverb > Egnater Rebel 20
I like the Whammy at the beginning of the chain because I believe that allows it to easily track my clean signal and produce a clean sound. I've tried it in different areas of my chain and that was where I thought it sounded the best. Maybe I should try it again after my compressor, but I hate messing with the chain because then I spend hours testing shit and should be shedding tunes instead.
Right on, well you like what you like, but if it were me, I would be putting a true bypass looper after the volume pedal (or compressor if the volume ever changed position), and the whammy in between the trem and the nova. I always like delay after my whammy, whether it be in the same chain or a different chain, so I can have delays on the whammy. That being said, I was using the Whammy IV and not the II. The IV can have kind of a cartoonish effect on your tone, and I've never played a II so I have no idea.
Quote from: picture_of_nectar on December 07, 2010, 12:46:08 PM
So I emailed on one of those loopstrip integrated custom boards and the guy wasn't $600-$800 for one to hold 8 pedals. Whoa...
Good grief, that's fucking insane. The pedaltrain method looks like an amazing route to go after hearing that price. The thing about pedaltrain is how customizable it is, you can change your board up pretty easily. I love it.
Quote from: ColForbin on December 07, 2010, 01:13:56 PM
Right on, well you like what you like, but if it were me, I would be putting a true bypass looper after the volume pedal (or compressor if the volume ever changed position), and the whammy in between the trem and the nova. I always like delay after my whammy, whether it be in the same chain or a different chain, so I can have delays on the whammy. That being said, I was using the Whammy IV and not the II. The IV can have kind of a cartoonish effect on your tone, and I've never played a II so I have no idea.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure the chip and technology that went into the II is different from the IV. I remember moving it around the chain and it sounded horrendous in most positions with the exception of the front of chain. I even did this with my band there for their opinions and it seemed to make the effect sound the best.
So I apparently didn't delete some quotes the correct way from above post...
Yeah, I'm pretty sure the chip and technology that went into the II is different from the IV. I remember moving it around the chain and it sounded horrendous in most positions with the exception of the front of chain. I even did this with my band there for their opinions and it seemed to make the effect sound the best.
When I have the money to spend I will get the master looper. Sometimes I've seen pretty good deals on their page that almost made me pull the trigger. I think they were selling a 6 switch looper for like $100 last time I checked. That's a great deal if you ask me!