Prince Caspian -> Phish Island Tour 4-5-1998 Providence, RI (Disc 3) Rock 1998
Just curious right at the opening few licks of Treys guitar he is doing some noodling, sounds sort of chorus like but I did not think he used one. Any one know what effect this is for sure as I have been looking for this sound for some time. I hear a slight bit of leslie possibly as well but not sure. It's just got this great glassy/watery overtone/undertone that I have never figured out.
Thanks for any input as to this.
I would guess that is ts9's, leslie, black cat, and reverb, probably from his microverb, depending on if he is still using the CAE 3+ se or not...
thats what i would guess, and that how i would imitate this sound.
Stiles,
Thanks for the offering. I was hoping it was something simple. Oh well. Damn leslie seems to keep getting in my way. Do you have a leslie of do you fake it with something else? He must also be able to dial back the black-cat (univibe?) to a mellower setting as it seems he uses a lot as a overtone, Sometimes like on the Trey solo stuff it much more intense, so maybe he can control it or has two settings programmed? It's that glassy overtone that I am looking for, I can definitely hear the leslie though but almost as if its in the background.
Thanks again for you help.
yeah i was thinking the same thing even though i have never seen him do that, and his footswitch is for the trem not the vibe which would make it even harder to do...
Maybe he just leans over and switches the Vibe to "chorus" instead of "vibe" or vice versa, depending on how hard he wants the vibe to bite...
The sound i want to hear is the microverb II reverse reverb, what the hell is reverse reverb???
When we record in the studio I have been using a Leslie 2101 Rotary unit. sounds pretty good, I don't own one though and happy I dont, they are HEAVY and it takes a long time (at least for me ) to dial in setting that work for my guitar. I also dont use it that often, I only use the leslie for a chorus of one song that we play, and briefly in some solo sections of other songs. I currently play in a three piece and if I go off on tangents with sounds and FX i find that we either get lost in the nonsense, or we have a lot of dead air while i am messing around... there are a lot of copies though that do the leslie sound pretty well... I played a option 5 destination rotation and thought it sounded really good, its not a leslie but it works... check it out
get you one and try it out!
http://cgi.ebay.com/Alesis-Microverb-Original-from-90s_W0QQitemZ280322620733QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item280322620733&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1234|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318|301%3A1|293%3A1|294%3A50
Pathetically i looked at this recently...
This is Mismarked... it is marked as a micro when it says clearly Nanoverb. Microverb II are now going for like 100 buck now...
wow! I didn't notice that.
sorry...
Maybe the guy who recently joined (Glenn @ Hard Truckers?) who seems to know Treys setup, could offer up something?
This is a particular sound that I hear Trey do a lot and to my knowledge has not been discussed here before. I describe it as a glassy, watery, clean rhythm sound with hints of slight overdrive maybe with a side of leslie and/or vibe, maybe (as I don't hear the swell of a vibe at all).
Every chorus pedal I have ever heard just reminds me of the old police songs so I really cant imagine that this is even in the equation. If we can get to the bottom of this I'll buy a round for all who contribute this summer most likely in Connecticut or maybe Chicago. Just like the GBOTT solo this is one I have been hunting down for along time. The closest I ever got was using a MM4 modulation (sold long ago) from Line 6 and don't remember what setting.
LOL ;D
Poster,
You are not going to chime in on this at all? Even a guess?
Cmon... you know something.
Ill say this much.
Any sort of sounds your hearing on a live recording going to have extra (lots) reverb due to the size of the venue. Second, they always have, and always will utilize several front of house effects and mixing techniques depending on venue etc. You can get any sound your looking for with all of Trey's components (Doc, pedals, amp, speakers, etc etc etc) but unless your in a concert hall with about 600k in front of house gear it still isnt going to be exact or close by any means. Then youve got to look at what mics they are using, where they are placed, what the settings on the board are for those mics, etc etc.
The sound man has alot more influence over the sound you hear in the audience than any non touring players would like to believe. For example, my bass player is a sound engineer. When he runs sound for a band, like Galactic for example, he'll use 4 mics just for the Organ. 1 playing out of the highest mounted speakers, another far panned right, another low, another far left. So bam right there. You buy a B3 organ to sound like Medeski. You set it up and play a progression. But where is the flowing 3-d sound you heard at the show? Its in the box with the front of house gear.
It very important to remember that all of those many many many speakers you see at a Phish/Trey show are not just there for looks. Phil Lesh plays at such low volume that without a mic on his cab and a trusty sound tech you probably wouldnt hear much of shit in the audience at one of his shows. I was at a Trey Band show when the PA system went out for a few minutes and was sitting front row (of course ;0) and Trey wasnt playing very loud at all. I assume that just another way to avoid using big inner ear monitors and all that junk. Keep the volume low and youll live to hear another day.
With my rig, I use a 4x12 slant cab tone tubby alnico cabinet. The top slant points right at my head. I can keep every thing at about "3" on my amp. I have so much headroom at that setting I can simply use one of my 4 boost pedals to get more volume. Ive got a buffer, boost, overdrive, and a huge CTS pot boost on my guitars. So i can get clean tones with all of the boost on. Turn up the mega pot and its like having 8 tube screamers on at one time and anything in between. I also have a front of house protocol for sound checking my rig at larger venues. Its always a good idea to be nice to the sound man and have a couple notes for what you have as your "cranked sound" and your "semi cranked sound" and then lastly "solo cranked". If hes worth his salt, hell set you 3 settings for front of house. When I use my clown prostitute tremolo Ill demo the pedal to the sound man and then have him stereo pan and rotary simulate the tremolo over the front of house. Its what I call the "seizure surprise"
That's what I'm talking about! Nice post.
Not calling you wrong, but this is a conflicting post with an e-mail i recieved about a year ago from mike at analogman. He was telling me that Trey has his shit maxed out on volume, along with his tube screamers. He was telling me that one of the keys to Trey's tone is to play with your amp loud, and if you have to, use an attenuator to limit the signal to the speakers...
I do agree though that the sound guy makes a huge difference, also venue size and everything.... But how would trey play his amp low and his TS9's maxed out without the compressor to lower it down?
Well, I can continue my post by saying Ive been in the front rows for many Phish and Trey shows. I can GUARANTEE you Trey doesnt leave his amp turned all the way up ALL the time. In Trey band the last few years, he was playing much smaller venues and it wasnt cranked. I would say that at the enormous venues he probably does turn his amp up as he rightly should've in that situation. If I remember right, Mike at analogman has only been on site at a couple of shows. He also makes his living selling those mods...
I would say he probably edges up the gain and turns the master volume up to where it isnt sucking his treble and then runs the screamers with the volume trimmed down a bit lower than wide open.
Glen had also told me that he is running his amp at very high volumes. Like poster said, it probably just depends on the room hes playing.
This post seemed to change directions a bit from the initial question, but I wanted to post an update to my initial question. While fiddling with my new Whammy II, I tryied out the "Detune" setting on the "Shift" side. When the pedal is toe down it is very chorus like, however when rolled back (almost all the way) it produced the exact tone I had been looking for mentioned in the beginning of this post. Seems this mode has a chorus or slight vibrato effect that I was unaware of. To me it was a very nice tone that can be used with rhythm. Take a listen to the into again in:
Prince Caspian -> Phish Island Tour 4-5-1998 Providence, RI
In my opinion this is at least part of how Trey gets that slightly glassy overtone (plus a bit of TS9). The other suggestions mentioned may be correct as well, however if someone could try this and let me know their opinion what they think that would be cool.
The glassiness you're talking about comes from the Adamas graphite picks Trey has always used -- trust me.
Ok, that is a good suggestion. I had not thought of that. I will try the Adamas graphite picks as soon as I can find them. Last time I did, they were quite pricey. I use the 2.0mm Dunlap Gaters instead. Did you try the Whammy II in Detune mode with the pedal just barely forward? I just wanted to get another opinion to see if anyone thought this sounded familiar or at least pertaining to the effect I mentioned in the intro of: Prince Caspian -> Phish Island Tour 4-5-1998 Providence, RI.