So for those of you who, like myself, have been completely digging the 2013 summer tour, I wanted to toss up a thread about the Shiva!
First off though, I think the band is on the mark this summer - I'm pissed they passed by Pittsburgh, I couldn't make it out of town with comprehensive exams and my job (therapist) this summer. But...
- I think I'm enjoying the sound with Trey panned right. I wonder what changed in the recording/micing process. I think they are still using two mics, but not hard panned. Maybe one center, one panned right? While it limits the space of the guitar, it creates space for the band and I really dig listening for melodic intervals from Page (and Gordon) that Trey pics up a second later in his solos.
- The recording quality is pretty spectacular as well, much more enjoyable to listen to than the early 90's stuff that I also love.
The Bogner has a cool, smooth and organic (for lack of better terms) sound. I don't know much about the amp, except that their website basically says its a modified Blackface circuit. Channel one doesn't have a midrange knob though Trey's sound seems much fatter than his DR - at least to my ears. Channel two apparently has more gain/overdrive on tap and does have a midrange knob. The concept sounds similar to his DR, but the tone he is getting is much different IMO.
With the DR, he is using Celestion Blue speakers - expensive, but a sweet and chimey character. With his Mesa, he uses Celestion V30's - more powerful with lots of upper-mid bite and a bit more of a modern voice (also cost-efficient with a ceramic speaker, which is punchier and less compressed than Alnico). The Bogner comes with a CL80 (similar to the Mesa MC90 and pre-rola G12-80). It sounds to me like Trey is using the CL80 when he plays the Bogner - in the pics I've seen, he is micing the internal speaker in the amp (not using a cabinet). The CL80 has a warmer midrange character than the V30 - the two make a great pair if the V30 has too much bite. I think that is contributing to his fat, round and fairly balanced, organic tone. Its also ironic that a lot of people thought he was using CL80's with his Mesa (he always used V30's). Anyway, that speaker seems like a great option with a BF-based amp, especially if you find it too bright - anyone try that?
From what I see in pics Trey is using the Red Channel of the amp. Could he be plugging into the languedoc cab?
From what I gathered during the 4 shows I caught this summer, he's been using the Mesa and the Shiva. I heard the Mesa a hell of a lot more, and you could see him use some kinda amp selector, he was totally playing through both.
Anyhow, there's been a few changes with the sound - they don't use monitors as much anymore. If you looked closely, you could see a Frontman 15R by Mike, a bass amp by Trey, and stuff. Part of why Fish and Mike swapped spaces was so Trey could hear Fish more clearly, and so the overall band travel rig is slightly smaller because they have slightly less monitors to carry round. He's absolutely using the Shiva's internal speaker, and the 'Doc cab for the Mark III.
Quote from: fulltone1989 on October 02, 2013, 10:54:02 AM
From what I see in pics Trey is using the Red Channel of the amp. Could he be plugging into the languedoc cab?
Remind me - the red channel is the higher gain with the midrange?
I thought (and this might be what Nice Guy was saying below) he was using the Shiva's channel switcher.
Quote from: No Nice Guy on October 02, 2013, 01:38:35 PM
From what I gathered during the 4 shows I caught this summer, he's been using the Mesa and the Shiva. I heard the Mesa a hell of a lot more, and you could see him use some kinda amp selector, he was totally playing through both.
Anyhow, there's been a few changes with the sound - they don't use monitors as much anymore. If you looked closely, you could see a Frontman 15R by Mike, a bass amp by Trey, and stuff. Part of why Fish and Mike swapped spaces was so Trey could hear Fish more clearly, and so the overall band travel rig is slightly smaller because they have slightly less monitors to carry round. He's absolutely using the Shiva's internal speaker, and the 'Doc cab for the Mark III.
Interesting Nice Guy!
Do you mean he is switching between them during songs for different sounds or kind of experimenting like he usually does with new gear (ie switching from show to show or set to set)?
What shows were you at? Do you remember specific points he switched? I might have to take a listen to those shows.
I was wondering how often he was using the Shiva vs. the Bogner - interesting to hear your opinion from those 4 shows. I really wasnt sure (I haven't listened to all of 2013 yet), but definitely notice the difference in sound between them.
When you mention the amp selector - do you mean an a/b between amps or channel selector for one amp?
People have mentioned you can see the Bogner channel switcher on the stage...
Quote from: Heady Jam Fan on October 02, 2013, 03:33:57 PM
Quote from: fulltone1989 on October 02, 2013, 10:54:02 AM
Quote from: No Nice Guy on October 02, 2013, 01:38:35 PM
From what I gathered during the 4 shows I caught this summer, he's been using the Mesa and the Shiva. I heard the Mesa a hell of a lot more, and you could see him use some kinda amp selector, he was totally playing through both.
Anyhow, there's been a few changes with the sound - they don't use monitors as much anymore. If you looked closely, you could see a Frontman 15R by Mike, a bass amp by Trey, and stuff. Part of why Fish and Mike swapped spaces was so Trey could hear Fish more clearly, and so the overall band travel rig is slightly smaller because they have slightly less monitors to carry round. He's absolutely using the Shiva's internal speaker, and the 'Doc cab for the Mark III.
Interesting Nice Guy!
Do you mean he is switching between them during songs for different sounds or kind of experimenting like he usually does with new gear (ie switching from show to show or set to set)?
What shows were you at? Do you remember specific points he switched? I might have to take a listen to those shows.
I was wondering how often he was using the Shiva vs. the Bogner - interesting to hear your opinion from those 4 shows. I really wasnt sure (I haven't listened to all of 2013 yet), but definitely notice the difference in sound between them.
When you mention the amp selector - do you mean an a/b between amps or channel selector for one amp?
People have mentioned you can see the Bogner channel switcher on the stage...
I was at the first SPAC show, the show at PNC, Jones Beach, and the first night of Dick's (7/5, 7/10, 7/12, and 8/30). From what I could tell he was switching them for some songs and jams. My head wasn't exactly clear at the times, but I could swear he was using both (he did have the Mesa on tour with him, both were plugged in, and I could swear I saw him using an amp selector when I was almost at the front at Dick's). During relistens, I think he switches during 46 Days at SPAC, sometime during the PNC Harry Hood > Axilla, a couple times in Jones Beach Rock and Roll > 2001 > Tweezer -> Cities -> The Wedge, and throughout the Dick's 2nd set. Also, in that 36 minute Tweezer from Tahoe, he totally switches the amps (or uses some crazy effect I can't name) around 10-13 minutes in.
Very interesting, I'll have to give those dates a listen.
Heady, as far as I know that's the 2nd channel w/ the mids. There's a Phish Instagram photo that I think was posted either here or TGP at the start of the tour that shows Brian Brown setting up what looks to be two mini AB's or True Bypass loopers.
Nice Guy - I'll have to check out those shows and see what I can hear!
Fulltone - I remember seeing that pic of Brown. IIRC the consensus was those were a pair of Keeley single TB Loopers. If so, they wouldn't function to switch amps, but rather maybe putting something like the Whammy in there.
For what it's worth, it was all Bogner in Toronto. The mesa wasn't plugged in or turned on the entire night. Sounded great.
Quote from: Heady Jam Fan on October 03, 2013, 06:39:08 PM
Nice Guy - I'll have to check out those shows and see what I can hear!
Fulltone - I remember seeing that pic of Brown. IIRC the consensus was those were a pair of Keeley single TB Loopers. If so, they wouldn't function to switch amps, but rather maybe putting something like the Whammy in there.
Yep that's what it was now that I remember, so IDK where the amp switcher is but of the few pic's i've seen from the band's facebook the Mesa wasn't even plugged in. Kind of funny that when he's using it it was hiding behind a cab pretty often IIRC, and it was front and center when the amp wasn't even turned on!
So I went and re-listened, I think I was wrong. As I said, I didn't really have a clear head at the time. What I think was that for a couple of them I just confused Trey toggling the TS9's and the different effects, and Jones Beach I couldn't hear too well because of all the rain and stuff (I was very far from the stage).
Though I'm still sure I saw an A/B selector somewhere, though perhaps this is just a sign that I'm starting to finally lose it (about time!).
Quote from: No Nice Guy on October 03, 2013, 11:14:44 PM
So I went and re-listened, I think I was wrong. As I said, I didn't really have a clear head at the time. What I think was that for a couple of them I just confused Trey toggling the TS9's and the different effects, and Jones Beach I couldn't hear too well because of all the rain and stuff (I was very far from the stage).
Though I'm still sure I saw an A/B selector somewhere, though perhaps this is just a sign that I'm starting to finally lose it (about time!).
Lol, well I appreciate your input - I'll still take a listen to the shows you mentioned. I was talking to other members here who thought it sounded like the Shiva was on s lot of the time during 2013. What I've heard thus far does sound like a slightly softer bf circuit compared to the mesa and a darker speaker compared too the v30 (c90 in the Shiva).
Quote from: Heady Jam Fan on October 04, 2013, 08:55:38 AM
Quote from: No Nice Guy on October 03, 2013, 11:14:44 PM
So I went and re-listened, I think I was wrong. As I said, I didn't really have a clear head at the time. What I think was that for a couple of them I just confused Trey toggling the TS9's and the different effects, and Jones Beach I couldn't hear too well because of all the rain and stuff (I was very far from the stage).
Though I'm still sure I saw an A/B selector somewhere, though perhaps this is just a sign that I'm starting to finally lose it (about time!).
Lol, well I appreciate your input - I'll still take a listen to the shows you mentioned. I was talking to other members here who thought it sounded like the Shiva was on s lot of the time during 2013. What I've heard thus far does sound like a slightly softer bf circuit compared to the mesa and a darker speaker compared too the v30 (c90 in the Shiva).
One thing I noticed especially during Chicagp was that his tone was more touch responsive and the different pickup setting are very evident.
From the shows I've seen and the video I've watched online the only cabinet that was mic'd for most of the summer was the shiva. The 2X12's weren't mic'd so for most of the summer you're hearing 100% shiva. At least that's what I thought.
I'm here at Hampton and got within 15 feet of Trey's rig. The Boogie has absolutely nothing plugged in to the front end and the power and standby switches are in the off position. No glow from the pilot light. The 2x12 cab and the Bogner is mic'd. I snapped some pics. Hope to post one of the amp once I get home. Just wanted to relay the info while it was on my mind.
Quote from: ShockedAndPersuaded on October 18, 2013, 06:30:34 PM
I'm here at Hampton and got within 15 feet of Trey's rig. The Boogie has absolutely nothing plugged in to the front end and the power and standby switches are in the off position. No glow from the pilot light. The 2x12 cab and the Bogner is mic'd. I snapped some pics. Hope to post one of the amp once I get home. Just wanted to relay the info while it was on my mind.
Very nice! Thanks for the report. It'll be interesting to see if it's the 6L6 or the EL34 version. I'm not sure there's a difference on the panels though.
If you go to phishthoughts.com you can see a pic of Trey and his rig. You can clearly see the Boogie has nothing plugged in to the front end and both right side toggles are down. These are the power and standby switches in the off position. Another thing worth noting is the red light on the Bogner was rarely switched off.
The Hampton show sounds fucking awesome tone wise.
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Quote from: ShockedAndPersuaded on October 18, 2013, 06:30:34 PM
I'm here at Hampton and got within 15 feet of Trey's rig. The Boogie has absolutely nothing plugged in to the front end and the power and standby switches are in the off position. No glow from the pilot light. The 2x12 cab and the Bogner is mic'd. I snapped some pics. Hope to post one of the amp once I get home. Just wanted to relay the info while it was on my mind.
ShockedAndPersuaded - can you post the pics you took? Would love to see them!
Quote from: Walker done done on May 29, 2014, 01:03:35 PM
Quote from: ShockedAndPersuaded on October 18, 2013, 06:30:34 PM
I'm here at Hampton and got within 15 feet of Trey's rig. The Boogie has absolutely nothing plugged in to the front end and the power and standby switches are in the off position. No glow from the pilot light. The 2x12 cab and the Bogner is mic'd. I snapped some pics. Hope to post one of the amp once I get home. Just wanted to relay the info while it was on my mind.
ShockedAndPersuaded - can you post the pics you took? Would love to see them!
If you scroll through you can see the pictures I posted proving this. (ledzepmaster)
http://forum.phish.net/forum/show/1375381442