Price? Year? Things to look for should I go take a look?
Thanks!
http://denver.craigslist.org/msg/4497926171.html
It looks clean. I think the DR circuit didn't change nearly as much as the other Fenders during this time. See if the caps have been replaced, original speaker etc. Good price as it includes a road case but you have to consider if you'll use it at all..
I agree^
Don't worry about the year - you can get it Blackfaced if you want, but I wouldn't worry, especially if your using it as a pedal platform. Just never use the pull boost ;). It was the higher wattage Fenders that really changed more and more after the Blackface era.
Since it was recently serviced, I'd say thats a pretty good price. Especially if the tubes are newish and you like the speaker. If you have to replace the speaker and tubes, its still a fair deal IMO, but that will cost a couple hundred. I'd personally see if he will keep the road case and drop the price a bit, but thats because I mostly drive my own car with my amp in a cushy spot when I play out - the road case would just be a hassle for me.
How much would you ask off to get it without the road case? $200?
Quote from: Jkendrick on June 02, 2014, 06:04:30 PM
How much would you ask off to get it without the road case? $200?
Probably not that much, but I have no idea what they are worth used - at last $100, maybe $200 is my guess...
And I don't think he inflated the price of the amp much based on the fact that he has a road case - I think he wants to sell both easily.
Considering that, I'd:
- Think the most he might take off is $150 (hopeful guess)
- But I'd just ask how much he would take off if you didn't want the case
- I'd probably ask for $100 off if he made me make an offer
- If he offered me at least $50 off the price, I'd let him keep the road case and just take the amp.
$50 can get you some new tubes or even a speaker if you find a really good deal on Craigslist, while a road case just makes clutter unless your packing up a lot of gear in a truck and playing out a lot. IMO.
After asking for more info, this is what I got back:
QuoteHi Jim, the speaker is original. Last year Ryan went through and replaced a bunch of stuff. There was an issue with the output power I believe he replaced part of that, new tubes.
Not sure about the caps.
I've worked with the tech, Ryan, he mentions and he does good work. Perhaps Ryan would have paperwork on the amp since the seller doesn't? I don't know, should I pursue?
Quote from: Jkendrick on June 03, 2014, 09:43:24 AM
After asking for more info, this is what I got back:
QuoteHi Jim, the speaker is original. Last year Ryan went through and replaced a bunch of stuff. There was an issue with the output power I believe he replaced part of that, new tubes.
Not sure about the caps.
I've worked with the tech, Ryan, he mentions and he does good work. Perhaps Ryan would have paperwork on the amp since the seller doesn't? I don't know, should I pursue?
I'd still pursue - if he is a reputable tech, I'm sure the amp is still great and worth it. Only playing it can tell though.
I don't know what he means by output power - probably either the output or power transformer. If so, the amp is definitely not a collector item IMO, but that doesn't mean its not a great amp still and within a reasonable price range.
Your going to want a different speaker - I'm 95% sure of that. Its cool to have the old one I guess if you resell the amp to someone who really wants something as original as possible, but a speaker that old is probably pretty worn out and most people don't like those original speakers anyway.
The seller is going to see if he can get more info on what was done. I have an Avatar cabinet with a Weber Cali 12" in it. I suppose I could just pull the speaker and swap out. If I bought this, I'd sell the UniValve so I wouldn't need the cabinet. The seller has been really accommodating and willing to let me try it out anytime with my own guitar and board. But it's tough for me to do that with my twin boys, so I want to get as much info on it before I do that.
Quote from: Jkendrick on June 03, 2014, 02:14:07 PM
The seller is going to see if he can get more info on what was done. I have an Avatar cabinet with a Weber Cali 12" in it. I suppose I could just pull the speaker and swap out. If I bought this, I'd sell the UniValve so I wouldn't need the cabinet. The seller has been really accommodating and willing to let me try it out anytime with my own guitar and board. But it's tough for me to do that with my twin boys, so I want to get as much info on it before I do that.
Good plan.
Your Cali is 8ohm?
Bring the extension cab too maybe - plug it in instead of the internal speaker and see how you like it with the DR.
Cali's are sweet!
The seller finally heard from the tech. Here's what he just emailed me.
QuoteRyan told me he did do a cap job, screen resistors, and replaced the output transformer. It has the original speaker.
Hope that helps,
I'll replace the speaker with my Cali. Think I should go play it? Anything here give anyone pause?
Quote from: Jkendrick on June 11, 2014, 03:48:28 PM
The seller finally heard from the tech. Here's what he just emailed me.
QuoteRyan told me he did do a cap job, screen resistors, and replaced the output transformer. It has the original speaker.
Hope that helps,
I'll replace the speaker with my Cali. Think I should go play it? Anything here give anyone pause?
Non-original Tranny would definitely affect the value. (That's what she said) If it's a mercury or heyboer I think you're fine though.
Quote from: Buffered on June 11, 2014, 03:56:26 PM
Quote from: Jkendrick on June 11, 2014, 03:48:28 PM
The seller finally heard from the tech. Here's what he just emailed me.
QuoteRyan told me he did do a cap job, screen resistors, and replaced the output transformer. It has the original speaker.
Hope that helps,
I'll replace the speaker with my Cali. Think I should go play it? Anything here give anyone pause?
Non-original Tranny would definitely affect the value. (That's what she said) If it's a mercury or heyboer I think you're fine though.
I'm going to call Ryan, the tech, tomorrow. I'll ask what the transformer is. Anything I should specifically ask about the work he did on the caps and screen resistors? I've worked with him before, even fairly recently so I'll ask his overall opinion of the amp as well.
Caps are pretty routine work, and it's actually a good thing they were recently done. Cap jobs are like $100+ depending on the amp
Ryan said everything he did he kept it as close to stock as possible. He said, as an authroized Fender dealer, he got an output transformer from them. The part numbers he gave me are:
125A1A
and
041318
He says those are two different numbers for the same part.
http://www.classictone.net/40-18002.html
Thoughts?
Otherwise he thought it was a good amp. He said the reverb was a little noisy, but no more than is typical in these amps.
Quote from: Jkendrick on June 12, 2014, 02:12:05 PM
Ryan said everything he did he kept it as close to stock as possible. He said, as an authroized Fender dealer, he got an output transformer from them. The part numbers he gave me are:
125A1A
and
041318
He says those are two different numbers for the same part.
http://www.classictone.net/40-18002.html
Thoughts?
Otherwise he thought it was a good amp. He said the reverb was a little noisy, but no more than is typical in these amps.
I wouldn't personally let any of the details you mention deter me from at least checking out, if not buying, a sweet old amp. I'm not sure how much the OT changes the value, but I still think $1K is a reasonable range. I'd probably try to haggle a bit because of the OT and seeing of he wants to keep the road case (and even speaker personally, but some people like the keep the original).
Thanks for all the advice folks. I pulled the trigger. It sounds really nice. It definitely behaves very differently with my OD pedals, so I'm going to need to take some time to dial them in.
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/06/16/dane4ase.jpg)
Quote from: Jkendrick on June 15, 2014, 03:05:09 PM
Thanks for all the advice folks. I pulled the trigger. It sounds really nice. It definitely behaves very differently with my OD pedals, so I'm going to need to take some time to dial them in.
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/06/16/dane4ase.jpg)
looks great!
Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk
Nice setup!
One more question for you guys. Is the stock speaker really brittle or harsh sounding? I have tried to plug my cabinet with the Weber Cali into the amp, but the stock speaker is soldered in and I don't want to mess with it. So it's hard to discern whether the brittleness is absent through the Cali when the stock speaker is still plugged in. I think it is, but again tough to tell.
ETA: I think Google has answered my question and I should just do the swap. That said, I would still welcome feedback.
I started to swap out the speakers today and realized I actually don't need to solder anything. But what I would have to do is remove the reverb tank and the chassis to get the stock speaker out of the DR. I called the local tech, Ryan, who worked on it in the past and he said it would likely be $40 to swap it out. I am nervous about doing it myself. Should I just plunk down the cash or should I do it myself? If it's the latter, any advice?
Quote from: Jkendrick on June 18, 2014, 12:28:04 AM
I started to swap out the speakers today and realized I actually don't need to solder anything. But what I would have to do is remove the reverb tank and the chassis to get the stock speaker out of the DR. I called the local tech, Ryan, who worked on it in the past and he said it would likely be $40 to swap it out. I am nervous about doing it myself. Should I just plunk down the cash or should I do it myself? If it's the latter, any advice?
I've done it to my Fuchs to swap the speaker, there a youtubes on the procedure but it's really easy. If you have a small electric drill it's a lot easier than a screwdriver.I always put the amp on it's side when pulling the chassis first. Be careful with the tank, as the inducers in them are real fragile and once they break that's it.
As far as the speaker goes, I think it's up to personal opinion..
I usually don't take out the chassis and reverb to change the speaker unless its a massive speaker. But then you have to make sure the screws/lugs/bolt don't tear the speaker cone when your swapping them: there is usually JUST enough clearance between the bolt and the chassis (one of the transformers IIC) to get a speaker out (lift the speaker up till its over the bolt and touching the transformer, then slide it down toward the reverb, then up and out of the combo - a slip-up can result in a bolt going right through the speaker cone). However, I do take out the tubes a lot of the time.
If the reverb is in a bag, I don't think you'll hurt the inducer, but they are fragile.
Most importantly, if you take out the chassis, don't get shocked!
Also, pay attention to how tight the nut is on the speaker/bolt. Over-tightening can warp the speaker and ruin it. Under-tightening can result in rattling. I just turn the nut a little further after I feel it start to gain resistance from touching the speaker - to the point where the gasket is pushed on tight, but the metal isn't going to bend. I usually play loud for a couple hours and check the nut again - if they weren't tight enough, they usually loosen up and then you can re-tighten them (too loose it better than too tight).
Its just a matter of getting used to doing it. Worth learning because $40 is too much to spend every time you swap a speaker.
Thanks. I'll look for some videos and see what i can do. I've read some people say to remove the grill cloth rather than go through the back. But that too doesn't seem obvious.
One more thing (again), I'm considering doing the bright cap mod. Anyone have any experience with that? Is it easily reversible if I don't like it?
Quote from: Jkendrick on June 18, 2014, 10:25:17 AM
Thanks. I'll look for some videos and see what i can do. I've read some people say to remove the grill cloth rather than go through the back. But that too doesn't seem obvious.
One more thing (again), I'm considering doing the bright cap mod. Anyone have any experience with that? Is it easily reversible if I don't like it?
Definitely watch some videos, can't hurt.
Silverface amps have the grill cloth on a separate piece of wood velcro'ed on, but the baffle (the wood the speaker is screwed to) is not removable (at least on most SF amps). Removing the grill cloth will let you see the head of the screws, which is only important if you a) want to remove some of the screws in the baffle (you only need 4) or b) if the screws are loose and turn when you try to tighten on the nut. Otherwise, since the speaker should be backloaded (screwed onto the back of the baffle inside the cab rather then on the front of the baffle like Mesa does), there is no need or reason to remove the grill.
The bright cap mod is easy to do and reverse. Its a small capacitor on the volume knob:
(http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd386/mousencrantz/suppression2.png?t=1291595972)
http://fenderguru.com/amps/deluxe-reverb (http://fenderguru.com/amps/deluxe-reverb)
You can snip or solder off one leg and leave it in the amp (just make sure the loose end won't make contact with anything), or completely remove it. I really don't think you will want to replace it once you take it out, but if you decide to, just solder it back where it was.
Also, if you haven't already, try pulling out the V1 tube (tube furthest to the right - farthest from the power/rectifier tubes - when looking at the back of the amp) when using the vibrato channel. It will give your amp more 'umph.'
Cool. Awesome link. I'll definitely do the bright cap mod and remove the V1.
Quote from: Jkendrick on June 18, 2014, 01:31:21 PM
Cool. Awesome link. I'll definitely do the bright cap mod and remove the V1.
Just be careful working inside the amp. Maybe read up on some safety precautions:
- only using one hand inside the chassis and don't let the rest of your body touch anything that can complete a circuit. Doing so keeps electricity from going through your body - particularly your heart - if you happen to touch the wrong thing.
- learn how to drain the capacitors so you wont get shocked in the first place.
Got the Cali in and did the bright cap mod. Wow! The amp sounded great before but now it's just amazing. Using the neck humbucker I can roll off the guitar volume for the classic shimmery Fender cleans. Roll up the volume to full and it's got slight crunch if you really dig in but is still very clean, but fuller sounding. The OD is much improved. I'm not sure if it's the speaker, the bright cap mod, or both, but the harshness is now gone and the OD is as smooth as butter. Just loving it!
ETA: My wife wasn't feeling well and went to bed early so I got a chance to pull the V1 tube. I'm not sure I hear a huge difference, but this rig now sounds sweet and is very controllable. I can get perfect cleans when I want them, fatten it up for clean lines, and go all the way up to endless sustain while still feeling totally in control. Thanks so much all of you for the help and advice.
I'm still considering swapping out 6L6s for the 6V6s. Is that crazy? I already like this amp so much. I always liked the 6L6s more in my UniValve. I've got 6L6s lying around but I'd have to rebias the amp, right.
You can use 6L6's, but you would have to rebias.
In fact, 6L6's might run better in an SFDR because those particular amps are known for having very high plate voltages that can quickly wear out 6V6 tubes. 6L6's will handle that voltage no problem.
HOWEVER, 6L6's will make your power transformer work harder. I've read that you can tell if your over-working your transformer if it feels hot, but I'd hate to blow a transformer using 6L6's. My understanding is that a Weber Copper Cap will help protect your power transformer is you use 6L6's.
A good medium is the JJ 6V6S. To me, I think of it as a mutt between a 6V6 and 6L6 - the guys who want a traditional 6V6 sound hate it, but it certainly has utility in vintage DR's (with their high plate voltage) or any 6V6 amp if you want more bass and treble. I personally like the creamy, compressed mids of the regular 6V6, but the 6V6S is a bit fuller and cleaner. I've been rotating between two sets of ANOS 6V6's and a pair of 6V6S power tubes. Ultimately the 6V6S or 6L6's will be a bit cleaner, a tad bit louder, and have a tad more bass and treble, but all of those things are governed by the size of the output transformer. With a 6V6, the power tubes gets 'pushed' before the transformer, with the 6L6, the transformer is more likely to be pushed first. Leo Fender did this same thing old 6L6's amp, putting output transformers in them that don't handle the fuller wattage (particularly by limiting the bass) of the 6L6's tube, so he would limit the wattage of the amp and keep the speakers from blowing (since speakers back then didn't handle much power). Those amps have less bass (a sweeter tone) compared to 6L6 amps with big iron (output transformers).
Oh yeah, I think your supposed to use a 4ohm speaker with 6L6's too.?.
Yeah, that was probably just over-excitement on my part (and a few IPAs :-[ ). I think I kinda love the tone as is, so why mess with it anymore.
Quote from: Jkendrick on June 19, 2014, 03:24:32 PM
Yeah, that was probably just over-excitement on my part (and a few IPAs :-[ ). I think I kinda love the tone as is, so why mess with it anymore.
IIRC, the old fender's 2nd input doubles as an output. You could blend them? I love blending the Express and ODS.
Quote from: Buffered on June 19, 2014, 03:49:24 PM
Quote from: Jkendrick on June 19, 2014, 03:24:32 PM
Yeah, that was probably just over-excitement on my part (and a few IPAs :-[ ). I think I kinda love the tone as is, so why mess with it anymore.
IIRC, the old fender's 2nd input doubles as an output. You could blend them? I love blending the Express and ODS.
That's an interesting idea. Problem is I no longer have a functional cabinet for the UniValve as I pulled the California to put in the DR.
Okay so one more I'd like to try, but I want to make sure I'm okay doing it. I'd like to replace the V2 12AX7 preamp tube with 12AT7 or 12AY7. The link Heady posted says this will give an even smoother OD. I've got these tubes lying around so I figure why not try it. Am I correct that I do NOT have to rebias to swap these tubes out?
Quote from: Jkendrick on June 19, 2014, 10:49:35 PM
Quote from: Buffered on June 19, 2014, 03:49:24 PM
Quote from: Jkendrick on June 19, 2014, 03:24:32 PM
Yeah, that was probably just over-excitement on my part (and a few IPAs :-[ ). I think I kinda love the tone as is, so why mess with it anymore.
IIRC, the old fender's 2nd input doubles as an output. You could blend them? I love blending the Express and ODS.
That's an interesting idea. Problem is I no longer have a functional cabinet for the UniValve as I pulled the California to put in the DR.
Okay so one more I'd like to try, but I want to make sure I'm okay doing it. I'd like to replace the V2 12AX7 preamp tube with 12AT7 or 12AY7. The link Heady posted says this will give an even smoother OD. I've got these tubes lying around so I figure why not try it. Am I correct that I do NOT have to rebias to swap these tubes out?
You do not have to bias after swapping preamp tubes. Only after swapping power or rectifier tubes.
Quote from: Heady Jam Fan on June 19, 2014, 11:25:14 PM
Quote from: Jkendrick on June 19, 2014, 10:49:35 PM
Quote from: Buffered on June 19, 2014, 03:49:24 PM
Quote from: Jkendrick on June 19, 2014, 03:24:32 PM
Yeah, that was probably just over-excitement on my part (and a few IPAs :-[ ). I think I kinda love the tone as is, so why mess with it anymore.
IIRC, the old fender's 2nd input doubles as an output. You could blend them? I love blending the Express and ODS.
That's an interesting idea. Problem is I no longer have a functional cabinet for the UniValve as I pulled the California to put in the DR.
Okay so one more I'd like to try, but I want to make sure I'm okay doing it. I'd like to replace the V2 12AX7 preamp tube with 12AT7 or 12AY7. The link Heady posted says this will give an even smoother OD. I've got these tubes lying around so I figure why not try it. Am I correct that I do NOT have to rebias to swap these tubes out?
You do not have to bias after swapping preamp tubes. Only after swapping power or rectifier tubes.
Right on, that's what I thought. Thanks.
This is what I've got on hand. Am I right in the equivalences?
5814 = 12AU7
5963 = 12AU7
5751= 12AY7
I'm thinking about throwing the 5751 In V1 and the 5963 in the V3.
Eta: asked and answered over at TGP
It's been a journey, but I think I'm there. After getting this amp, I found the cleans to be exactly what I was looking for. I could play the clean guitar directly into amp and be thrilled. But the overdrive wasn't right with my former pedal configuration. Whereas before my TIM with either the FD2 or the Keeley TS9 nailed what I was after, now the more transparent TIM wasn't working. I needed more mids. And, for some reason, the FD2 just wasn't as smooth with this amp. I know that's all due to the amp, but those pedals just weren't cutting it. I got a Rocket Boost EQ and that helped. But it broke down quickly (Peter fixed it free of charge and it is on it's way back to me now).
In the meantime I decided to try the Analogman TV808. Well, I got it today, and now I think I'm (almost) there. I had to move my compressor to after the OD, but otherwise I'm running the Keeley TS9 into the AM TV808 and it's damn near perfect. I still think I'll want the Rocket Boost EQ to help shape things a bit more than the tone knobs on the Tubescreamers allow. But damn, I'm finally really happy with all of it.
Ironically, I started this journey as I was planning on playing out more with a buddy who had just moved back to the area and then my wife went and got a great job, so we're moving to Portland next week. Anyone in Portland want to jam? ;D
Have you clipped the bright cap in the amp yet? It's reported that TIM and TImmy don't like Fenders, but I like my Timmy with my Fenders when I had them.
Quote from: Buffered on July 08, 2014, 09:44:47 AMHave you clipped the bright cap in the amp yet? It's reported that TIM and TImmy don't like Fenders, but I like my Timmy with my Fenders when I had them.
I did clip the bright cap. It definitely made a big difference. It's not so much that the Tim doesn't get along with the amp, it's that I like the shimmery cleans of the Fender. On the UniValve I had a fuller, less bright clean tone and the transparent Tim worked well. With the Fender cleans, I want more mids added with my OD. And after trying a bunch, I think the original 808 sound is what I like most. The Keeley modded ts9 is great too and works well stacked with the 808. I still want to shape it a bit more with the eq, but I doubt anyone but me (or you tone-obsessed folks) would notice.