Anyone able to figure out the sweep style lick Trey does in many Antelop peaks? It's like a triplet but with a sweep and hammer-on together.
8:20
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jV5cpyyA1V0
6:58
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRvG9zjyrog
I've managed to play a simpler way of that but I think it's my pinky that is the weak link.
Yeah I have never been totally sure about this lick. I also think he uses virtually the same technique in Lizards, where he does that big build-up that sort of bubbles up underneath Page's piano solo. Here's what I think it is:
(http://backoffice.i5fusion.com/images/0b6661ec-b273-4450-ab48-d68c32dba8ea/Antelope-Lick.png)
The first line is what I think the lick ACTUALLY is, the 2nd line is how I often actually PLAY it because (as you mention) the pinky workout is a little too much (note in the first line there's the extra little pull-off/hammer-on with the pinky). I think Trey sometimes falls back on the easier version as well. Also note he moves it around more in Antelope than is shown here in the tab--the tab just shows the technique.
Also FYI I did a video on Lizards a while back where I show the technique. It's here (that specific part of the tune comes a little past the 13 minute mark):
http://youtu.be/RU24vuj6fSk
Thanks for the reply, that Lizards video will help for sure learning that lick, I'd say you break it down pretty well. Maybe I'll learn lizards while I'm at it.
Paul, so is it a similar riff to the triplets at the end of David Bowie? Seems, especially in the second example, to add that extra note. Also, obviously, it's (Lizards riff) a minor triad instead of a major triad (Bowie).
The end of David Bowie is actually easier than this lick imo because the David Bowie coda lick is a straight ahead triplet.
What's this riff? I apologize, I don't have a guitar to mess around with it. Is it still triplet feel?
see original post.
Yeah the Bowie lick is easier IMO, although maybe a bit faster. Not a "triplet" technically, but groups of three like this:
(http://backoffice.i5fusion.com/images/1f62437d-96b8-4ce6-8fdb-189ec8f0cf02/Bowie-end-lick.png)
Actually kind of like Knopfler's arpeggios at the end of Sultans Of Swing (on crack).
I have no doubt Trey copped that Bowie riff from Sultans. How is it not a triplet? It's three notes for every quarter beat, right?
Quote from: Jkendrick on August 18, 2014, 10:49:53 PM
I have no doubt Trey copped that Bowie riff from Sultans. How is it not a triplet? It's three notes for every quarter beat, right?
Triplets are evenly spaced
Quote from: Jkendrick on August 18, 2014, 10:49:53 PM
I have no doubt Trey copped that Bowie riff from Sultans. How is it not a triplet? It's three notes for every quarter beat, right?
It is a triplet. 1 E & 2 E & etc
We're definitely hitting wonk-level semantic differences here, but I don't think those licks are true triplets--as HJF says, triplets are evenly spaced, but in this lick the 3rd note of each group is longer. It's a "group of 3" but not technically a "triplet."
Check it out--I plugged it into my notation software, and you can hear how it plays back. In this MP3 the lick plays twice, the first time as written in my tab above (two 16ths and an 8th), and the second time it plays back in triplets. To my ears the first one sounds closer to what you hear in the song.
http://backoffice.i5fusion.com/media/86084da1-61f7-44c9-96ff-ced1a251dae1/Bowie-Lick.mp3 (http://backoffice.i5fusion.com/media/86084da1-61f7-44c9-96ff-ced1a251dae1/Bowie-Lick.mp3)
Huh, yeah maybe. The first one does sound closer to my ears as well, but the second one sounds *better* to me and is more what I strive for when playing these licks.
Yeah I do kind of agree with you there. Playing "true" triplets is actually kind of difficult (esp. when you're in 4/4), and it takes practice to really get it right.
Quote from: Jkendrick on August 19, 2014, 11:33:12 AM
Huh, yeah maybe. The first one does sound closer to my ears as well, but the second one sounds *better* to me and is more what I strive for when playing these licks.
Here is a simple triplet line at the end of a tune I wrote:
https://soundcloud.com/houdinispsychictheatre/travels-dont-lose-your-way#t=3:37 (https://soundcloud.com/houdinispsychictheatre/travels-dont-lose-your-way#t=3:37)
I like the triplet sound too! I remember when I was a music major in college, we had to do all sorts of 'drumming' exercises and people really struggled with stuff like triplets in the left hand, 1/4 notes in the right. Anyway, I think they give the sound a sense of movement, like its leading into itself. The entire song is supposed to be that way, if you listen to the beginning, it changes time signatures between 4/4 and 6/4 every measure.
Cool tune Heady!
I'm definitely deficient in my rhythm knowledge. I can obviously hear the difference when it's pointed out as in Lephty's clip, but I don't think I would ever have guessed it wasn't a true triplet without having it pointed out. I'm sure I'm not playing true triplets either, but for me, these licks require a specific picking pattern and that sometimes trips me up either leading into the lick or out of it.
I've been messing around with a Languedoc and an MK III and DR and I keep finding that I cannot really nail the tone unless I turn either amp up a bit and really pull back on the guitar's volume. Has anyone else tried this? I never found Trey's DR settings, which I'd love to see, but I found that with a volume around 4.5 and volume knob dialed back I was really getting the best tone (and the most Trey like). Ditto with the MK III.
Anyone else find this to be the case?
Another old piece of Trey's tone that I loved was his Small Stone Phase Shifter. He used to use it all the time, i'm not sure exactly when it disappeared, but it had such a lush smooth sound to it. Very full. I'm hoping to add one back soon b/c they really are great pedals.
In my humble view these posts with TAB's or actual video's of little licks is extremely helpful. Probably about as useful as anything that goes up here, and thanks Lephty for posting the very helpful video.
I think Walker had done one a while ago of a Maze lick, those types of things are really awesome to see on the site.
Quote from: Lephty on August 19, 2014, 11:21:42 AM
We're definitely hitting wonk-level semantic differences here, but I don't think those licks are true triplets--as HJF says, triplets are evenly spaced, but in this lick the 3rd note of each group is longer. It's a "group of 3" but not technically a "triplet."
Check it out--I plugged it into my notation software, and you can hear how it plays back. In this MP3 the lick plays twice, the first time as written in my tab above (two 16ths and an 8th), and the second time it plays back in triplets. To my ears the first one sounds closer to what you hear in the song.
http://backoffice.i5fusion.com/media/86084da1-61f7-44c9-96ff-ced1a251dae1/Bowie-Lick.mp3 (http://backoffice.i5fusion.com/media/86084da1-61f7-44c9-96ff-ced1a251dae1/Bowie-Lick.mp3)
It's good to know someone here has some good music theory knowledge. Thanks Lephty.
My pleasure. Most of what I know I pretty much learned from Trey & Phish, happy to pass it on.
Kind of a shitty video but it's something:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkjQIg4QHRI&list=UU7eX4Izpt_X7GDNPOLZh6Ng
Can you show how trey does those big long bends with the second note to follow when he goes into most jams? is that a bend and release and is he using any pedals? If ya know! Thanks! Can't think of the perfect example - if you need one I'll find it. Thanks!
If you can get me an example I'll do my best to play/demonstrate it if I can.
Well just a quick example - not the one I had in my mind;
New York 7/13/14. Backwards Down The Number Line 2:53 on... Sounds like a few bends and releases - he seems to do that to get the jam going on those types of songs?