I'm looking for smooth/fusiony overdrive tones with the aid of a couple pedals. I want a 1x12 for it's weight, and it needs to be loud enough to compete on stage and still clean up decent on the volume knob. I doubt I'll need to go past 4 or 5 on volume ever these days when your being mic'd even at small clubs.
I've heard a good silverface deluxe reverb or a deluxe reverb reissue with a speaker change will get me there. Thoughts?
What kind of guitar? With humbuckers, my DRRI was starting to clip on 3 and just got dirtier. If you're using pedals, you could probably find a 40W amp or so that weighs reasonably and has enough headroom.
I've had a Silverface DR for about a year. I'm not the most knowledgeable person on gear, but I like it a lot. I'm not gigging though. I get a very narrow sweet spot with my Seymour Duncan 59s. I set the DR at 2.5 to get break up with the guitar cranked. I can ease up on the guitar's volume to clean it up. Recently I've turned it down to 2 because I can really only play while my kids sleep and the tone definitely suffers. I'm thinking of getting a Bad Cat Unleash to allow more volume options while retaining the sweet spot tone. It's also worth noting I have a Weber California in it; not sure how that effects headroom. I revamped my board when I got the amp as well. With my old amp (a UniValve) the cleans were fatter, less shimmery and I used the more transparent TIM as my primary OD. With the Fender ' s shimmery cleans (which I prefer), I've gone back to a TS808 as my primary OD and even use a post -OD EQ to fatten up the lead tones.
I hope that's helpful. I'm happy to answer any questions, but someone like Heady has a lot more knowledge than me.
I'd say this is the best overall and simplest amp you could get. A speaker change is a must however, as originals (and a lot of the replacements) are too brittle. I've tires v30's (not a great fit), cannibas Rex (pretty good, dark though), and blue dogs (perfect). I've also had various other odd speakers in it I didn't love, can't remember them all.
Just set volume at about 3, reverb at about 2-3, everything else at 5 and you're done.
I prefer volume higher than Kendrick, but play with my vol knob about 50-65 percent. Ends up plenty loud. Speaker change will impact volume a good deal. The blue dog makes it pretty loud.
I use a 12AY7 in V2 and still run out of cleans with PAFs around 3 on the dial, especially without the Ross. As Kendrick pointed out, there is a narrow range of 'sweet spot' on the volume - the 'edge of breakup' territory, so to speak. If your at the sweet spot for rhythm and you kick on a lead boost, your amp will be a bit overdriven, which can be fine unless you want a super clean lead. If you set your volume low enough for clean leads, you won't be in the sweet spot for rhythm. Aside from a volume boost, this is where the Badcat comes in handy: I run my lead boost and delay in the FX Loop, so I set my amp right at the sweet spot. With the Unleash, my DR has more clean headroom than my Mesa.
The Blue Dog is a great speaker, but a little quiet if you really want to eek out all the headroom you can get. I'm digging the Steamboat Hemp 100 in both my DR and my Mesa.
I also use JJ 6V6S tubes which helps. You can run 6L6's and switch the rectifier to a GZ34, solidstate, or Weber copper cap. IIRC, this changes the impedance the output transformer wants to see. This can give a slight boost in volume, but its limited by the output transformer. You want the speaker to match the impedance though, or you won't get much change in volume (just a different tone/feel).
I would get a Pro Reverb any day over a Deluxe Reverb. They have more clean headroom and some even have Master Volume which to me makes it the better choice between the 2. This is just my opinion.
I agree with averyone here. I have a blackface Botique DR and while I love it - it breaks up too early - and I'm a basement player w a drummer. I'm happy with it, but if I had (and I have been looking) to do it again I'd search the 40w amp range. Check out Vintage Sound Amps (what I have), he makes the gammet of Fender clones from the DR up to the Twin. I was going to trade mine in for the Pro Reverb but I didn't have the $400-500 cash to blow.
You can't go wrong with 40+ watts - better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.
Quote from: tsbot on April 08, 2015, 10:11:32 AMI agree with averyone here. I have a blackface Botique DR and while I love it - it breaks up too early - and I'm a basement player w a drummer. I'm happy with it, but if I had (and I have been looking) to do it again I'd search the 40w amp range. Check out Vintage Sound Amps (what I have), he makes the gammet of Fender clones from the DR up to the Twin. I was going to trade mine in for the Pro Reverb but I didn't have the $400-500 cash to blow.
You can't go wrong with 40+ watts - better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.
I don't know. Just jamming in my basement is pretty loud even at the sub-sweet spot of 2. At 2.5-3 it's plenty loud for a full band. As I said, I'm not gigging so I can't really speak to that. But I'd rather have something at the DR volume sweet spot for my needs. Anything louder would be untenable in my situation. In fact, I'm anticipating using the Unleash more for attenuation than re-amping. Of course, it totally depends on your situation.
I'm surprised people think the deluxe isn't loud enough. Thousands of professional gigging musicians feel otherwise, even those in Nashville in mic'd. To each his own.
I have (and had) 40 watt fenders, and the problem is they don't break up until its way too loud. Usually people love these amps because you can control the breakup just by how hard you strum. You set it at the sweet spot and it's plenty loud clean, and if you want slight grit you pick more aggressively. It's always on call. A 40 watt amp is very, very loud at the point of breakup. Which is why people love the smaller DR.
Two other points to consider - you can get louder with a DR (I'd say almost as loud ad my 40 watt fenders) simply by changing the speaker. If you have a Ross you can also add volume with less breakup.
In the end I'm never over 3, and only 60% on vol knob and it's plenty loud for gigs.
Quote from: Hoody on April 08, 2015, 12:49:09 PM
I'm surprised people think the deluxe isn't loud enough. Thousands of professional gigging musicians feel otherwise, even those in Nashville in mic'd. To each his own.
I have (and had) 40 watt fenders, and the problem is they don't break up until its way too loud. Usually people love these amps because you can control the breakup just by how hard you strum. You set it at the sweet spot and it's plenty loud clean, and if you want slight grit you pick more aggressively. It's always on call. A 40 watt amp is very, very loud at the point of breakup. Which is why people love the smaller DR.
Two other points to consider - you can get louder with a DR (I'd say almost as loud ad my 40 watt fenders) simply by changing the speaker. If you have a Ross you can also add volume with less breakup.
In the end I'm never over 3, and only 60% on vol knob and it's plenty loud for gigs.
Yeah this exactly. Hoody, do you think my Weber California makes it significantly louder?
Quote from: Jkendrick on April 08, 2015, 01:16:02 PM
Quote from: Hoody on April 08, 2015, 12:49:09 PM
I'm surprised people think the deluxe isn't loud enough. Thousands of professional gigging musicians feel otherwise, even those in Nashville in mic'd. To each his own.
I have (and had) 40 watt fenders, and the problem is they don't break up until its way too loud. Usually people love these amps because you can control the breakup just by how hard you strum. You set it at the sweet spot and it's plenty loud clean, and if you want slight grit you pick more aggressively. It's always on call. A 40 watt amp is very, very loud at the point of breakup. Which is why people love the smaller DR.
Two other points to consider - you can get louder with a DR (I'd say almost as loud ad my 40 watt fenders) simply by changing the speaker. If you have a Ross you can also add volume with less breakup.
In the end I'm never over 3, and only 60% on vol knob and it's plenty loud for gigs.
Yeah this exactly. Hoody, do you think my Weber California makes it significantly louder?
Most Weber speakers are about 97db sensitivity, and a quick google search seems to indicate the Cali's are in the same range. This is not a loud speaker - most Celestions are about 100db. My Steamboat is 100db. Eminence rates some of their speakers above 100db, but I also think they are a bit liberal in their ratings: I'm not sure a Red Fang that Eminence rated 102db was noticeable louder than a 100db Celestion Gold. [I believe the 3db difference would mean the 97db Cali is 75% as loud as the 100db Celestion, but perceived volume also depends on how the speaker is voiced].
I personally find the DR is just barely not loud enough to keep up with my band (particularly the drummer) if I want the amp to be a clean platform for pedals (and have some headroom left for leads), which IMHO is ideal for a jam band situation. However, its definitely true the DR is THE most popular workhorse amp for a reason. Its the most popular workhorse amp because most guys are playing blues or classic rock and they don't need sparkly clean cleans - some grit is ideal, and you just push the amp for overdriven leads. This will keep up with most drummers and fill most venues small enough that they don't need their own PA system anyway. Any bigger venues, this is all moot because they will have a PA and a 5w Champ would be fine.
I also notice a big paradox between periods when I am in a band, and when I take a break from playing in bands and just jam alone at home. When I'm not in any bands, just playing alone at home, almost any amp sound unnecessarily loud. However, during periods when I am playing in a band, a DR sounds pretty quiet to me - I turn mine up to 10 regularly and just role down my guitar volume knob if I want a cleanish tone.
What was the db on the original oxfords and utahs? From my experience they can't be as loud as the weber. I made some other mods to my amp as well when I put in the blue dog, so perhaps those had something to do with it.
Quote from: Hoody on April 08, 2015, 09:34:06 PM
What was the db on the original oxfords and utahs? From my experience they can't be as loud as the weber. I made some other mods to my amp as well when I put in the blue dog, so perhaps those had something to do with it.
Yeah, I'll bet the Webers are louder than the originals.
Not to hijack here, but Heady have you played JBL's? I'm pretty interested in that steamboat (great price), and would like to know your thoughts on the sound as compared to a JBL if you've played em.
I currently play a boogie 50 caliber +. Smokin amp. Sounds just like a mark iii to me. Its got the black shadow in it, but I'm thinking a speaker swap could do some good. You mentioned you played that steamboat in your mesa, so you obviously know where it stands in the boogie world.
A little later down the road I will pick up a DR potentially, and would definitely be looking for a D120 or k120 to put in there. But if the steamboat is close, this could be a good deal.
Quote from: dontpanic on April 13, 2015, 02:39:05 AM
Not to hijack here, but Heady have you played JBL's? I'm pretty interested in that steamboat (great price), and would like to know your thoughts on the sound as compared to a JBL if you've played em.
I currently play a boogie 50 caliber +. Smokin amp. Sounds just like a mark iii to me. Its got the black shadow in it, but I'm thinking a speaker swap could do some good. You mentioned you played that steamboat in your mesa, so you obviously know where it stands in the boogie world.
A little later down the road I will pick up a DR potentially, and would definitely be looking for a D120 or k120 to put in there. But if the steamboat is close, this could be a good deal.
I'm not all that well versed on the JBL's. They are American-made and American-voiced, so less midrange than a British-voiced Celestion speaker. I think the bass goes deeper and the treble goes higher on the JBL than a typical American speaker, like a Jensen. Some people compare them to EVM12L speakers: the JBL is more common in Fender while the EV is popular in Mesa. Both have a similar voice: extended frequency (in the bass and treble) and fairly flat midrange as they are both pro-audio speaker companies at heart. However, both brands have their own thing going on. That broad, flat response is great for the Fendery clean tone, but the darker British midrange tends to smooth out overdrive more and often cuts through the band mix better. The JBL's can be particularly rough (harsh) with overdrive if they have the metal dust cap. I tend to pick the midrange of a Celestion over the flat response of an EV, especially if I am playing with other musicians in my register (such as my band with another guitarist and a keyboard player). If I were in a 3-piece (me, bass and drums) and wanted to fill up more sound, I might use an EV. However, the Celestion (or Steamboat) always sounds better for my jam band tone IMO (and by Jam, I mostly mean Trey - the JBL might be closer to Jerry), and cuts through better with a full group of musicians.
Its tough to compare to the Black Shadow because Mesa used that label for a range of speakers including the EVM12L, the Mesa/Celestion C90 which is similar to a Steamboat but without the hemp cone, an 80's Eminence EVM12L copy with its own kinda thing going on, a different Eminence speaker that does not have a good reputation... So picks or specs on the speaker can help me to compare it to the JBL or Steamboat.
Will a JBL fit in a DR? I think its 50/50 with those bigger speakers. I was barely able to fit an EVM12L in my DR (but switched back to a Celestion quickly), some people aren't able to fit an EV in their DR. Depending on how heavy the JBL is, it can damage the baffle on a DR too.
Quote from: fluffytone72 on April 06, 2015, 10:05:05 PM
I'm looking for smooth/fusiony overdrive tones with the aid of a couple pedals. I want a 1x12 for it's weight, and it needs to be loud enough to compete on stage and still clean up decent on the volume knob. I doubt I'll need to go past 4 or 5 on volume ever these days when your being mic'd even at small clubs.
I've heard a good silverface deluxe reverb or a deluxe reverb reissue with a speaker change will get me there. Thoughts?
I've got one for sale if interested...brand new! Trying to acquire a Hiwatt for my Floyd project.
I play a strat with humbucker in bridge (and I'm on that humbucker all night). I set my tone by stacking two overdrives and diming my guitar volume. Volume on 10 is soaring lead, volume 6 or below is cleanish rhythm. I should clarify when I say clean I dont mean country clean, I mean like touch responsive clean where you can strum lightly and it sounds like a gritty clean sound which is great for funk playing. Pretty much all my rhythm playing is like partial chord chunky funky sounding stuff which sounds better if it's got just a little hair on it. So I'm fine just not going past 4 on volume, having a slightly hairy clean tone, and mic'ing if I need more volume.
I used to play a maz 18, and it was plenty loud for all my gigs. I mean I played a couple outdoor festivals with it and still used an attenuator. So you people who say the deluxe isn't loud enough are you playing jazz or country with this amp? Because I just don't see how that could be. I just want an amp where I can play at the sweet spot pretty much anytime I'm playing in a band setting. Having 40+ watts of clean headroom no longer interests me because I can never turn those amps loud enough to get crunchy, and I don't need a perfectly clean tone ever unless I'm playing jazz in which case I'm at a small intimate venue in which case volume is no issue.
Ok, so I'm definitely getting a deluxe reverb. There is 2 I'm looking at:
1. 1977 silverface that appears to be in decent condition, looks like I could snag it for $1200 maybe less.
2. An alessandro fender deluxe reverb. Apparently it's handwired point to point by allesandro and is an exact replica of 65 blackface. $1350
Thoughts on which one I should go with??? If I got the silverface I'd probably upgrade the speaker+new tubes+blackface mod which would end up being more expensive than the alessandro which is already blackfaced and has a custom speaker and good tubes.
Thanks for the help guys! I appreciate the insight!
Ok, this is just to funny/maddening to not share.
So the 1977 silverface I'm looking at is on ebay now. I asked the seller when the last time it was serviced and how old the tubes were (a very logical question when buying a 40 year old amp!). Here's his response:
I have not had it serviced since I have owned it many years and I won't as it's not broke! It works and sounds great. I am not messing with it period. It's Vintage so unless it needs a repair not going to happen.
My thought was ok....so it may need to be serviced before I gig with it, maybe not, maybe it's just a really good amp that won't need to be recapped or anything. However, the tubes are a different story. If the tubes are 10 years old, I will need to change them and re bias before I gig. Still, that's fine I don't mind doing that, I just want to know before I buy the amp so I can pre order tubes. Since he didn't answer that part of the question, I replied and asked if he would look and see what brand the tubes were at least since there is no picture. Here's his response:
Really! The amp works and sounds great! I have blocked you from bidding! Good luck!
How do I proceed? I mean I really do want to buy the amp, but I fucking hate this guy now. I mean what a dumbass for getting butt hurt about a few simple questions. Excuse me for asking about the tubes of a guitar amp before I drop over a thousand bucks on it. If he's that brain dead, I'm thinking he won't even know how to ship properly.
I might call and ebay and explain the situation, see what they say.
I agree 100% with your post about not needing to go above 4 on the dial. I too like just a little bit of pick responsive grit. And I can't imagine needing more volume unless i were playing jazz to a much larger audience than i anticipate ever having.
Where are you located? I'd probably get the silverface, but not from that guy. In the past I've bought vintage amps from guitar center, or local dealers, then had them checked out by my amp guy. He can then tell you how things really look. With any older DR, you may want to consider a cap job, new speaker, new tubes, bias, and I'd certainly recommend pulling the bright cap and the thing on the reverb that makes it brighter (can't remember what that's called now).
I don't know anything about the modern replicas of the DR. Some say they're great, some don't.
Alessandro amps are fantastic, I would trust he knows a lot about old Fenders and what makes them great. Additionally, I don't think it would need a cap job since it sounds newer. The BFDR is essentially the endgame, I would skip over the Silverface especially since the seller sucks. Good thing you didn't bid on it and found that out after you bought it from him!
Quote from: fluffytone72 on April 18, 2015, 11:55:44 PM
Ok, this is just to funny/maddening to not share.
So the 1977 silverface I'm looking at is on ebay now. I asked the seller when the last time it was serviced and how old the tubes were (a very logical question when buying a 40 year old amp!). Here's his response:
I have not had it serviced since I have owned it many years and I won't as it's not broke! It works and sounds great. I am not messing with it period. It's Vintage so unless it needs a repair not going to happen.
My thought was ok....so it may need to be serviced before I gig with it, maybe not, maybe it's just a really good amp that won't need to be recapped or anything. However, the tubes are a different story. If the tubes are 10 years old, I will need to change them and re bias before I gig. Still, that's fine I don't mind doing that, I just want to know before I buy the amp so I can pre order tubes. Since he didn't answer that part of the question, I replied and asked if he would look and see what brand the tubes were at least since there is no picture. Here's his response:
Really! The amp works and sounds great! I have blocked you from bidding! Good luck!
How do I proceed? I mean I really do want to buy the amp, but I fucking hate this guy now. I mean what a dumbass for getting butt hurt about a few simple questions. Excuse me for asking about the tubes of a guitar amp before I drop over a thousand bucks on it. If he's that brain dead, I'm thinking he won't even know how to ship properly.
I might call and ebay and explain the situation, see what they say.
I used to be heavily into buying and selling vintage Rolex watches. I know, strange expensive fetish/hobby. The advice someone once gave me, applies with music equipment, or anything for that matter - "buy the seller, not the watch". If follow this advice your chances of getting what you want are much better. Also, take your time, do your research, and don't be afraid to ask a seller anything.