Compression from other sources

beebs · July 06, 2010, 06:47:47 PM

Hey guys, I'm wondering if Trey dropped his compressor when he was using the fender amp because of the large amount of compression that naturally comes from cranked tubescreamers into a cranked tube amp? I know that when I have my 1 tubescreamer cranked with both the drive and level on max, my tone gets really naturally compressed, especially if I run it into my fender superchamp xd amp with the gain cranked to a very very slight breakup (just enough so that the ts pushes it over the top when I turn it on). I don't get much difference in volume between barely picking a note and really plucking/hammering it, however, there is an obvious difference in crunch. Plus that really nice sharp/squashed pick attack really seems to come from the tubescreamer rather then my compressor. It has come to the point where I don't even need a compressor unless I have my ts off (and then it gets used for more of just a clean boost). Is the mesa just not cranked as much and is therefore missing the tube compression, so it needs a little more help?

Walker done done · July 07, 2010, 10:50:01 AM

I think you make an interesting observation here, for sure. Welcome to the forum.

patrickstefanski · July 07, 2010, 11:04:17 AM

i have two tubescreamers, a fender deluxe, and an analogman bi-comp.

the two screamers at a general "trey steup" feeding into a jacked fender deluxe will give you some insane sustain.

but...add that ross comppresion even at a low "sustain" and normal "attack" and it get's more "trey"
my tone is still no where near trey's , but i don't think it ever will be because he is trey and i am me, but those are definite steps in the right direction.

Brian27 · July 07, 2010, 11:20:55 AM

He dropped his compressor in 2003 cause he found he could get a more edgier sound without it, but Tom Marshall got him one for his birthday or Christmas back in 2009 i think and he has used it in every show. If you look at the pics that are posted on http://www.proaudiostar.com/the-most-detailed-photographic-documentation-of-phishs-live-setup-ever-published you will see that the level is on 12:00 and his sustain is at 8:00. Every rig should have a compressor iin it. It doesnt matter what you use as an amp. In tribute to Trey never and i mean never use a compressor before overdrive or distortion. Always set your overdrive and compressor levels at unity with the volume of your amp. Set sustain on comp between 7:00 and 12:00. Also use round part of pick. Not the point

Brian27 · July 07, 2010, 11:51:57 AM

I usually have mine low to middle. I had an old mxr phase 90 thing that you put on the knob to control with your feet and so i have my sustain knob with that thing on it.

Walker done done · July 07, 2010, 11:53:42 AM

Quote from: posternutbag on July 07, 2010, 11:32:00 AM
i dunno brian, by all acounts the sustain level is actually nearly off, at the around the 1 1/2 2 mark. very light compression this time around, back in the early nineties he had it turned up for more squish. depends on what tone you prefer

He was referring to a clock, so at 8 o'clock, yes, the sustain is nearly "off", or around the dial mark of 1-1.5. Same thing either way.

Walker done done · July 07, 2010, 11:54:44 AM

Quote from: Brian27 on July 07, 2010, 11:20:55 AM
He dropped his compressor in 2003 cause he found he could get a more edgier sound without it, but Tom Marshall got him one for his birthday or Christmas back in 2009 i think and he has used it in every show. If you look at the pics that are posted on http://www.proaudiostar.com/the-most-detailed-photographic-documentation-of-phishs-live-setup-ever-published you will see that the level is on 12:00 and his sustain is at 8:00. Every rig should have a compressor iin it. It doesnt matter what you use as an amp. In tribute to Trey never and i mean never use a compressor before overdrive or distortion. Always set your overdrive and compressor levels at unity with the volume of your amp. Set sustain on comp between 7:00 and 12:00. Also use round part of pick. Not the point

And Brian, for clarification, is was members of PT who bought him the Ross and sent it to Tom to give to Trey. Not that it really matters.

Brian27 · July 07, 2010, 12:23:47 PM

i have the following settup. Peavey Milestone>Dunlop Original crybaby>Boss OD3x2>Dyna Comp>Digitech Whammy II with 2nd down and 1 octave down presets>Boss RT20>Line 6 M13>Behringer GMX212. The M13 is used for Looper, modulation,delay,and reverb. The M13 effects loop has a Ibanez DM2000 with pedals for hold, mod, and bypass. Even though i dont use tubescreamers and a Ross Compressor i love my tone. The Dyna Comp works wonders with OD3's

beebs · July 07, 2010, 04:32:29 PM

Here's what I'm thinking:

Before he got his DR, almost all of his drive was coming from his TS's. That way, he had plenty of clean headroom with the big mesa (or whatever he was using) and wasn't trying to get amp overdrive so he could stay nice and clean even with TS's in the mix. He still needed a way to keep his volume levels normal and still get sustain, so he maxed out the volumes on his TS's (more sustain) and added the ross (to keep the volume constant when turning on/off pedals). I think he constantly kept a TS-10 with the gain rolled all the way down and volume all the way up at all times for his baseline crunch.

He switched to the DR to add a nice amount of real amp tube overdrive (not just the TS's for dirt). The DR has much less clean headroom because it's a much smaller amp, so he could push up the levels on the DR till it was breaking up (no more clean headroom) and then use his TS's to push it over the top to varying degrees (volume boost and some signal clipping to tighten things up). But since the DR was running nice and hot, there wouldn't be a huge increase in volume since there wasn't any more clean headspace, there would just be more dirt. So then there is no reason for a compressor; if anything you would want to get rid of it to increase the dynamics coming into the amp to have varying levels of distortion based upon picking dynamics and volume controls.

If you've ever played with a small tube amp, you will know what I'm talking about. I used to have a little vox 5watt tube amp that I would turn up till it was breaking up pretty good. Then if I wanted to play clean, I would roll back my volume to bring the dirt down. The volume output of the amp wasn't affected though, just the amount of dirt because I was always maxing out the clean headroom. So if you have your amp running on the verge of break-up, I don't think there is any need/use for a compressor since that is what your amp is going to do anyways... unless you want more sustain or something, which can be had just by making sure that there is enough gain (compressor won't really help there). Once you hit the break-up point, it can't/won't get any louder no matter how much dirtier the sound gets.