Languedoc guitars... the new "les paul"? your thoughts?

deadbearbobby · February 16, 2011, 09:51:42 PM

I've been going back and fourth on if i should buy a languedoc for awhile. and reading alot of forum discussions on the subject doesnt help. i've been thinking though... that all those people that say Languedoc = Trey, would be the same people going Les paul = les paul. I mean really it is the same idea. people seem to get so bent out of shape about 2 things regarding these guitars, 1 being "its Treys guitar... if you are playing one people will think you are trying to be Trey", and 2 being "why is it okay to copy the design of a languedoc". In reality though isnt it the fact that people want one and that its such a unique design people want more affordable versions a good thing? Thats how it started with les paul... Am i crazy to be comparing the two? what are your thoughts?

picture_of_nectar · February 16, 2011, 11:27:44 PM

If you can afford it, and IF you can get on Paul's list, you certainly won't regret it. Having $10gs isn't necessarily going to get you a Doc. i have talked with people who have been trying to get on the list for years. i just got lucky I think.

Trust me, all you'll be hearing from people is, "that guitar sounds badass!!!"

Also, I think the Les Paul was really made famous by Eric Clapton and Jimmy Page.

Happyorange27 · February 17, 2011, 08:05:06 AM

First of all, yes we all want a Languedoc but it will be a cold day in hell before I'm going to spend that much on one so I'll buy an Equator or similar way before that.

Here is my main point: I've seen a video of a dude on YouTube with a Languedoc an he plays it pretty poorly and with terrible effects. If Trey didn't exist and this was my first introduction to that guitar, I wouldn't give it a second thought (other than the guitar looks amazing).

On the other side of the coin, I see dudes like Mike Shubin (http://www.youtube.com/user/mikeshubin) who play just a regular Epiphone hollow body with a very basic rig and he freakin' nails Trey. He makes that guitar very convincing, like if you were not looking, it could be a Languedoc style. He inspires me immensley and it makes me think it's more about the ability to play then what instrument you are playing.

Also, I think if you are going to be able to own a Languedoc, you need to pass a guitar playing test. It's like getting blue balled when I see this regular dude holding his holy grail Languedoc guitar and then I hear him pissing out of it. Not cool man.

Don't take me too seriously guys, I'm just being goofy and getting off the subject.

Walker done done · February 17, 2011, 02:03:10 PM

I would LOVE nothing more than to own a real 'Doc (who wouldn't?) but for me, it would be highly irresponsible for me to do so. The money Paul charges is a lot, no matter who you are and what you do for a living. Is it worth it? Yes, but even that answer is debatable. You need to first agree on the definition of "worth". I think it's great that there are a number of other options out there for those of us who can't go that route. Paul would disagree with that. Didn't somebody once say that the greatest form of admiration is to have someone copy your work? (or something like that..?)

We all copy things, in every day of our lives. A friend says something witty, a coworker discusses a smart/hot topic, and we regurgitate and share it the next day to someone else. As we all know, there are so many songs that have been copied and reformed into other songs - it's the nature of music in general, and has been going on since its inception. Companies copy other companies ideas for pedals, speakers, amps, etc. Someday, someone might copy AO's design.

To ride PON's coattails for a second, I have a 'Doc copy from Resurrection, and I've heard both positive and negative things from people ("that's a bad ass sounding guitar" and "what are you, trying to be Trey?"...I should note it doesn't help that I have reddish hair and a beard - but that's not my fault! LOL) I say thanks to the former, and fuck off to the later. LOL. Judgement is a funny thing, and I always feel that it's for a higher power, and not me. If someone wants to judge you, let that be on them. They're the ones who have to deal with it in the end.

So, to your point deadbearbobby, I'd say if it's something you want and something you can responsibly afford, go for it dude. But I do sort of agree with you with the Doc/Les Paul comparisson. Hey, Paul L. "borrowed/stole" (whatever you want to phrase it as) his idea from someone else, too - it's not like he invented the guitar or anything. He took a design, tweaked in, meshed it with another idea and viola. A Languedoc was born. But where would he be without Trey? Who knows. And to PON's point, where would Les Paul be without Clapton or Page. Where would Fender be without Hendrix, not to mention a million others?

Here's something to ponder: was Les Paul's goal to be as big and popular as he is now? Not sure, but I doubt he's complaining about it. Is Paul Langedoc's goal to be bigger than he is currently? I dunno. One would think he'd like to grow his business. Would AO one day like to be the Les Paul of the world? I dunno. Depends on what each has for goals...which I'm assuming are always changing depending on so many different factors.

Happyorange27 · February 17, 2011, 02:26:24 PM

Quote from: Walker done done on February 17, 2011, 02:03:10 PM
Here's something to ponder: was Les Paul's goal to be as big and popular as he is now? Not sure, but I doubt he's complaining about it.

I doubt he's doing anything right now

Oh by the way Paul Languedoc copied/stole his first name from Les Paul's last name...shame shame

Walker done done · February 17, 2011, 02:34:52 PM

Hahahaha right, shame on you Paul!

And I know Les Paul isn't with us anymore, but was just making a point. Should've used past tense, I suppose. Grammer lesson for the day complete.

picture_of_nectar · February 17, 2011, 03:26:35 PM

Edit: I deleted some of this rant. The original is quoted tho. I was in a weird mood when I wrote it.

think anyone who buys a Languedoc, or a Languedoc copy in order to "sound just like Trey" is rather misguided...as Trey could sound pretty much just like himself on anything. I guess I don't see the appeal in mimicking your favorite artists style to the point that you don't develop your own voice with music.

At the same time I don't think it's anybodies place to judge someone for the instrument they want to play. "Pass a players test to be able to buy a Languedoc..."

? Really? come on... I mean who cares if someone wants to look just like Trey, or how good they are at doing it. Why would that bother people?...and if it did, there are plenty of other bands to see...

When I see phish cover bands or people posting youtubes of their perfect Stash or whatever... "big deal" is kinda what I think. Yeah I'll watch them, but I've listened to Trey nail that riff a million times, I'm nearly sick of him doing it...why the hell would I wanna watch you do it half as good as him? So you sat in your bedroom and played the same riff for a year straight so you could finally record yourself and put it up on youtube. Wow, here is a medal.

You won't find me sitting at home running through Divided Sky licks trying to nail Treys perfect timing. Not even slightly interested in that. I can hardly memorize my own phone number let alone a Trey solo...
I can totally appreciate how that is fun to do. Maybe if I had more free time I would.

With the band im in we sorta do some phish covers but they are more impressions of Phish jams. For instance in our own songs we will drop into the 46 Days riff and mess around for a while, or play the Free D-Eb heavy jam and let our bass player thump all over it. That's the kind of stuff we are into, wide open 2 chord grooves.

For me buying a Doc was more of a sentimental thing, just because I've grown up with that tone and it has significantly impacted my life over the years. You could almost say I have found myself listening to Paul's guitars.

I guess my point is I'd rather see a guy demo his doc in his own style rather then make it a talent show for Trey licks. Personally I'd rather watch someone wonk out with effects and experimental sounds with a Doc on youtube (where is that vid btw?) then watch some hotshot try and match the perfect Chalkdust Tourture solo. I mean whats the point of that?

Here is our take on Carini. I'm playing with my Soloway Gosling which also has it's own amazing voice. I really love it nearly as much as the Doc even though it was maybe 1/10th of the price.
http://soundcloud.com/butcherd/carinish-blues-2-15-11/

Happyorange27 · February 17, 2011, 03:45:25 PM

Hey I said at the end of my message to not take it so seriously. I'm just jealous of your guitar dude. It's a free country and if you can afford it, get it. Also I don't want to bash anyone's playing because I'm not good either so forget I said anything about that dude playing on YouTube.

picture_of_nectar · February 17, 2011, 03:50:16 PM

its cool man
i'm speaking in general terms. what you said didn't bother me in the slightest.

and I would like to see the guy on youtube butcher his doc with bad effects, got a link for that one?

patrickstefanski · February 17, 2011, 03:58:00 PM

Quote from: picture_of_nectar on February 17, 2011, 03:26:35 PM
I think anyone who buys a Languedoc, or a Languedoc copy in order to "sound just like Trey" is rather misguided. I guess I don't see the appeal in mimicking your favorite artists style to the point that you don't develop your own voice with music.

At the same time I don't think it's anybodies place to judge someone for the instrument they want to play. "Pass a players test to be able to buy a Languedoc..."come on man. I mean who cares if someone wants to look just like Trey, or how good they are at doing it. Why would that bother people...and if it did, there are plenty of other bands to see...

When I see phish cover bands or people posting youtubes of their perfect Stash or whatever... "big fuckin deal" is what I think. I've listened to Trey nail that riff a million times, I'm nearly sick of him doing it...why the hell would I wanna watch you do it half as good as him? So you sat in your bedroom and played the same riff for a year straight so you could finally record yourself and put it up on youtube. Wow, here is a medal.

I'm not a great player, by the bar most of you guys set I am probly a novice. My knowledge of the fretboard and, my chops and phrasing are weak but building as I practice everyday. Still I do feel I have a decent ear and a sense for the psychedelic tones that open gateways for the listener....mini little adventures so to speak. My band and I sound best when we are locked into a simple groove, based on one chord even, and blow it out using various techniques. And tha's why i want'ed a Languedoc. To get that magical resonant feedback that just hums and soars. Throw some effects over it and take off in a spaceship...sort of a trancy groove funk, boarder line electronic sounding.

You won't find me sitting at home running through Divided Sky licks trying to nail Treys perfect timing. Not even slightly interested in that. I can hardly memorize my own phone number let alone a Trey solo...
We sorta do some phish covers but they are more impressions of Phish jams. For instance in our own songs we will drop into the 46 Days riff and mess around for a while, or play the Free D-Eb heavy jam and let our bass player thump all over it. That's the kind of stuff we are into.

For me buying a Doc was more of a sentimental thing, just because I've grown up with that tone and it has significantly impacted my life over the years. You could almost say I have found myself listening to Pauls guitars.

Personally I'd rather watch someone wonk out with effects and experimental sounds with a Doc on youtube (where is that vid btw?) then watch some hotshot try and match the perfect Chalkdust Tourture solo. I mean whats the point of that?

Here is our take on Carini. I'm playing with my Soloway Gosling which also has it's one amazing voice. I really love it nearly as much as the Doc even though it was maybe 1/10th of the price.
http://soundcloud.com/butcherd/carinish-blues-2-15-11/
If you think we are trying to impress anyone with this music you are missing the whole point.

I agree with with almost everything said here. Right on

The reason it's "almost" and not "everything" is because I do enjoy the occasional "let me learn YEM and try to nail it" I would never record myself and post it on youtube, unless someone asked me to (which would never happen because i'm not a terribly good guitar player). The reason I like doing that, is the same reason I am having AO build me a doc-like guitar, is the same reason I post on this forum, because Phish is my favorite "hobby" or whatever.

But yeah, buying a Languedoc won't make you sound like trey. playing trey's guitar thorugh treys rig onstage at a phish show won't make you sound like trey.

Happyorange27 · February 17, 2011, 04:18:10 PM

Well he's not terrible I guess but it's just not what I wanted to hear when I actually found someone posting some playing of a Languedoc.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1UnZ-7wGoY
Maybe you guys will love this and think I'm being a bonehead.

Anyway PON I'm listening to your band right now and I'm digging the laid back groove. I'm down with what you are laying there.

Walker done done · February 17, 2011, 04:47:13 PM

I didn't think that youtube guy was half bad at all, but geez did you check out that guy covering Joy? WTF batman?

picture_of_nectar · February 17, 2011, 04:48:07 PM

Thanks, That was Tuesday.

I think that guy is playing his Doc pretty clean into his amp. Sounds like a little Princeton Reverb or something. I've only seen videos of people playing them pretty modestly.

picture_of_nectar · February 18, 2011, 03:29:48 AM

Quoteplaying trey's guitar thorugh treys rig onstage at a phish show won't make you sound like trey.

Totaly... But wouldn't that be fun!

deadbearbobby · February 23, 2011, 03:22:57 PM

Interesting points... The reason i want a doc is because i think it is the best guitar for my style. i mean to buy a guitar, any guitar, to sound like anyone else is pointless ... the guy mentioned on youtube.... marc i think is his name.... sounds great to me. the guys that play to sound just like trey or jerry garcia or anyone else piss me off. right now there are two big names playing docs in the jam band scene... trey and scott muraski from max creek. and they both sound different. I play jazz fusion and experimental stuff... singing sustain is important to me... and for my playing style a doc would sound different .... to say the least. i would want a doc even if trey didnt play one... of course they would be a hell of a lot cheaper haha.
Thanks for the input...

p.s. PON... im diggin your band