The Jazz Theory Book - Mark Levine

[Stiles12]

I do a lot of this, they call it sideslipping in theory but its a great way to build some tension.

I do it a lot on even more basic levels like minor pentatonic to aeolian natural by implementing the minor 3rd for tension. or half step rises pentatonically for a period of time before returning back to tonic. all aspects of sideslipping

Lydian Dominate and mixolydian are great because both work great of major/minor dominant 7 chords. one being an extreme major and another containing a veryyy minor sound. for sure if you are able to throw these together its a natural way to create tension.

[fulltone1989]

I was looking at it as weaving in and out of A mixolydian and C# Lydian dominant.

But in the key of A, wouldn't it be E mixo? I'm confused.

[Heady Jam Fan]

Here's some food for thought. This is something I've been trying to keep on deck when improvising over a dom7/9th jam. It's a pretty simple concept but I thought I'd throw it out there since the Lydian family is being discussed. This idea is based around a half diminished played from the 3rd of the tonic. ie a c# half dim is the same as an A9. In this example I would throw in a C# Lydian dominant scale to play "outside" or create tension. I had this on my mind Friday night at the gig and was partly due to this thread. So thank you stiles and heady for helping jog my memory.

I meant to post earlier - like Tomas seems to be doing, I am wrapping my head around this, but what Shocked is saying (I think) is not that the C#9 is the same as an A9, but that a C# half dim comes from A mixolydian, which is D ionian (thus C# is locrian or half dim). So A9 and C# half dim are the same: A, C#, E, G, B = C#, E, G, B aside from dropping the A from the C# half dim chord.

When considering this in the context of C#9, the only similar note between A mixo / C# half dim and C#7 is the C#, which I think is what Stiles was saying about sideslipping: nearly each note is a half step from the scale the chord implies, which creates a lot of 'outsideness' or tension - A dorian would have no similar notes.

One thing to mention, Shocked puts this in the C# dominant lydian, so the F# from C#7 (the 4) is raised to an F## (double sharp) or G (I suppose enharmonically), which also occurs in the A mixo scale/chord.

So the two scales:
A Mixo:          A B C# D   E   F#   G   A
C#dom lydian:      C# D# E# F## G# A# B# C# EDIT: per Shocked's correction below, B# is lydian, Bnat is dominant, should be B rather than B#, I guess you can write out F and G rather than E# and F##, respectively

*I could be wrong, but this is my interpretation/understanding
**Also I think C# Dominant Lydian is the 4th mode of G# Melodic Minor Ascending.
***Aslo, as Stiles mentions, A Mixo over C#7 would sound VERY minor.

[ShockedAndPersuaded]

Heady you are right on track with everything.  Sorry I didn't go in to more detail at the time of my post.  I was posting from my phone.  There is one correction. The C# Lydian Dominant is C# D# F G G# A# B C#. 

After going back to my guitar and playing around with this concept I realized you could also use a Diminished Whole Tone scale starting from the C# to get some outside tones and create tension.  This seemes to sound a little more "acceptable" than the Lydian Dominant from C#.   

Sticking with the same example you could also play a Lydian Dominant scale starting from the tri tone sub of A. 

I hope I'm not confusing anyone too much with some of these suggestions.  It's been a while for me on the theory end of things and I confuse myself a lot.  I've been trying to get back in to it and kicking around ideas such as these with like minded folks is something I don't get to do often.  Unfortunately for me I understand more on paper than I do my instrument.  Shit seems to get lost in translation from my brain to my hands.

[Heady Jam Fan]

Lol, I know what you mean about lost in translation! As I read and post (mostly read), I often cover more than I can play and I have been really struggling to find time to pick up my guitar, putting in at least 9 hours a day and more often from wake till sleep lately.

So the difference between the scale I had posted and the one you just posted is the B natural (E# is F, F## is G). And clearly, my mistake, as the B# would be lydian, the B natural makes it dominant. So I should clarify with the correction on comparing the scales, the lydian dominant would share the C#, G and B with the A Mixo.

When I was thinking about this application at first, I was thinking about diminished and whole tone options or even a split scale, starting with a diminished pattern and ending in whole tone (kinda weird, probably has another name that I am not recognizing). I forget the notes of the scale I had in mind right now, but it had the G and G#.

I really appreciate your posts, Shocked! That is exactly what I was looking/asking for when I posted the book - for people to recognize applicable stuff, as that is sometimes difficult from sort of 'textbook' reading, and the let others figure it out. While it took some discussion, I think that is very worthwhile as it leaves others with some cools ways to get outside the box (particularly the tempting pentatonic one, which should be the first goal - get beyond those 5). I don't think you wrote it in a confusing way, it is just that there will always be a wide range of ability to understand theory in any forum - someone like Stiles knew exactly what you meant, while I had to take some time to figure it out / makes sure I understood it. I am happy to put my brain to work and try to write it out in a way that I find more tangible, hopefully that will translate to most people who might not understand initially. If you wanna write it in the 'dummy' version by all means, but it was also cool to piece together.

[Happyorange27]

Good job guys. I'm barely checking in lately due to my new job but reading it as I can. Love it.