A Growing Rift?

[Happyorange27]

That's a good point. Thanks for pointing that out.

[fulltone1989]

Disclaimer:  I don't really know what I am talking about -- ever. 

But, with that said, one thing that has struck me over the years is that with the increase in the "quality" of live show recordings (quality being defined as closeness to the soundboard), the flubs, mistakes, the good, bad and the ugly all shine through clearly and loudly -- for better or for worse.  As a result, I actually prefer live shows recorded with good audience mics, because they sound better and they replicate the experience of being at the show better (that, and I love the constant din of crowd noise in the background, which to me is  like the calming pitter patter of rain drops on a dreary day).

I believe that some of the perceptions about this "growing rift"  in Phish (at least insofar as the perception stems from musical mistakes and errors rather than energy or cohesion or some other factor) are simply a function of the fact that so many more people are all listening to soundboard recordings of shows where the mistakes are way more noticeable.  Indeed, how many times have you gone to the show, left thinking it was the greatest show of all time, and then listened back to the soundboard and been a little disappointed? 

Not flaming your post at all, but Fall run 2010 that I attended was great IMHO. I left Manchester thinking it was decent but after getting the board it was a different story, set I had some solid bustouts and the Alumni Blues (after Jimmy Page) was an ragingly funky dance-party. Set II was full of sweet jams and I was really glad to be there.

I think the quality of the soundboards affecting how people interpret shows can go either way, brings out the nuances in each member's playing much more than say listening to the whole band amidst the zaniness of the floor or from a nosebleed seat. The soundboard puts you right there and I think Phish's ability to give fans excellent sbds of their shows is a huge accomplishment in itself. I personally dig sbds much more than an aud because the quality is unsurpassable in most cases and people talking next to me next to jams at a show make me frustrated, so why should I waste valuable computer space with the same thing?

Back to the "Growing Rift" thing, In my personal and humble (probably incorrect) opinion - 1994-99 is gone, and I think my semi-pessimism towards Phish is just jealousy for all the Pholks who made it to NYE '95 or Oswego and saw the golden times (once again, opinion.) I still love the Phish but I focus more on listening to the older years where they did stuff like Makisupa->2001->DWD->NICU and hearing the magic of the transitions and all the fun they were having in the process, I just think they've lost their musical treasure map.

Tours and NYE must be incredibly fun for them still, but I think they have other items on their plates now (family and side projects) Trey has a orchestra tour in Jan and Feb and I'm sure he was thinking about that, too.

I feel like aside from special dates, dropping $60 on a face ticket is kind of hit-or-miss for me, granted i'll still go because Phish is one of my favorite bands out of musicianship and them being the only people who can do what they do. I'm just tired of hearing the same 4 songs off Joy, and Possum and every other show I go to in my area

Sorry if that sounded douchey at all. Just my .02

[picture_of_nectar]

Who am I to say...

But I think the only thing I would add is that although I know Trey likes to take charge and steer the ship, I wish he could be a little more patient in the transitions and give the band space to explore new territory.

Light->Golden Age at MSG for example. I love the selection, I was there and I was stoked to hear Golden Age coming out of Light...but it was just a little abrupt. Fishman couldn't (or didn't want to) latch on to Treys groove and so it sounded butchered. Personally I would have liked to hang in Light a bit longer.

It seems like Trey hears something in his head and latches on to the idea. I miss the patient build ups and transitions. The beginning of Piper is another example.

I struggle with this with my own band as well. I know what song we are moving into and might feel a little nervous about making the transition so I jump right into it. I need to trust the guys a little more that we can take it from one song to the next slowly and let it happen in time rather then force it. Even an extra 30 seconds can seem like forever on stage, but it can make a huge difference.

[Uncle_Ebeneezer]

I recognized that the Deadheads put too much on Jerry's solders and that's not cool and actually unhealthy for every one involved.
1) Appreciate what we have. We all have our ups downs plateaus and foibles. We all have our moments of energy, weariness, virility, impotence, creativity and desolation. Trey is sharing his humanity and still learning how to do it in sobriety.
2) Sobriety WILL change the dynamics, but less from "creativity" standpoint and more from .. I'm so fricken tired... just a little pin-prick, that will get you through  the show, now its time to go.... intoxication  can totally put you in the right place as required, but its a mask to the other stuff of life for teh time "there"

first off... i dig the floyd subtleties haha. And I agree it is cynical... I guess i came on here to bring it up and have a phan tell me I was wrong, cause in truth I obviously don't want to be right at all. I guess pointing flaws out, like with Jerry, can make it become a self fulfilling prophecy by creating a more hostile environment for the performer. I still think though, that if it so easy for even laymen to notice the tides changing they should be trying to enrich their jams.

[manicstarseed]

first off... i dig the floyd subtleties haha. And I agree it is cynical... I guess i came on here to bring it up and have a phan tell me I was wrong, cause in truth I obviously don't want to be right at all. I guess pointing flaws out, like with Jerry, can make it become a self fulfilling prophecy by creating a more hostile environment for the performer. I still think though, that if it so easy for even laymen to notice the tides changing they should be trying to enrich their jams.

Thank you for playing.
now to business...

Huh?

Ding Ding Ding! you made my point. AND clearly you are no layman.

My stance ... is who are we to expect that they enrich their jams? Forgive me, I am attacking that concept, not you. The assertion that they should be trying to  enrich their jams is simply offensive to me. To me, it is a righteous consumer mentality. This is art. If they feel like shit, the music should reflect it otherwise it is contrived and designed for what we think want to hear, not what the musicians need to say or be. 

I guess its my approach to things these days. I try to accept what is offered as perfect, because in the moment it is as perfect as perfect can get. Anything else is my disappointment. I own my satisfaction. Its not like I don't perceive on and off nights or obvious flubs, I simply seek to reserve judgment.

Clearly no one is telling you your wrong, worse, we/most agree there have been some differences from the past glory we knew. I even sense the mellowing, but Ive seen the mellowing since '94.

Another thought.... Juggling is all about the drop, if there is no risk of dropping things, where's the magic in succeeding?

[manicstarseed]

Thinking about this a little bit...

In the end the musicians need only to please themselves. If they do that and we dig it, then magic is made. If they have issues with the music not being the momentary best, then I simply hope they can work out those issues in time to find the joy we all want (and need) them to have for a stellar experience.

I think this ebbs and flows, if the relationships between the band/tour mates and phans are healthy, there is no reason to think that stellar shows are out of reach.

 

[MomaDan]

first off... i dig the floyd subtleties haha. And I agree it is cynical... I guess i came on here to bring it up and have a phan tell me I was wrong, cause in truth I obviously don't want to be right at all. I guess pointing flaws out, like with Jerry, can make it become a self fulfilling prophecy by creating a more hostile environment for the performer. I still think though, that if it so easy for even laymen to notice the tides changing they should be trying to enrich their jams.

Thank you for playing.
now to business...

Huh?

Ding Ding Ding! you made my point. AND clearly you are no layman.

My stance ... is who are we to expect that they enrich their jams? Forgive me, I am attacking that concept, not you. The assertion that they should be trying to  enrich their jams is simply offensive to me. To me, it is a righteous consumer mentality. This is art. If they feel like shit, the music should reflect it otherwise it is contrived and designed for what we think want to hear, not what the musicians need to say or be. 


Another thought.... Juggling is all about the drop, if there is no risk of dropping things, where's the magic in succeeding?

History. Phish's history of taking songs and playing them out for 10+ extra minutes while having crazy segments and transitions makes us want more. We have no say in whether Phish actually enriches their jam obviously. But it is an expectation of going to one of their shows. When I describe to outsiders why phans go to MSG for 4 nights in a row or follow them on tour for a couple months, their are 2 points. One is that they will never play all of their hits in one show, they are different every time. The other is that songs will be presented differently, jammed out. Its not ridiculous to say that at set at NYE run should be memorable based on recent shows. The last 2 runs, UIC and Dicks, were much more memorable than NYE. 4 months off is too much for Phish, especially if they arent practicing.

The biggest misconception in my opinion is the impact of flubs. 6.22.94 second set is one of the best ever even though I Am Hydrogen is seriously flubbed by Trey. Its the exploration and creativitiy that are what make this set amazing, not if everthing is precise. Theres nothing wrong with analyzing the band we love, it doesnt mean we want them to stop playing

[the_great_lemon]

As much as I hate to see it happen, much of what has been stated above I agree with.  The jams are getting shorter, but I like to view it as just another phase in Phish's history.  For example, 95=epic climaxes due to lots of tension; Late 97=minimalistic funk;03-04 trippy as shit, and really inconsistent, etc. etc.  but now, in 2011 moving into 2012 the shows are more song oriented, more songs naturally means each one has to be shorter.  As Manic said above, the band should feel free to make whatever music they want to not limited to what fans want.  That's part of what makes being an artist in any form so great, the freedom of expression.  You can express whatever you are feeling, and don't have to cater to what others want.  The trick is to find the balance between making music you want to make and that people want to listen to.  Either way, I'm just happy to be able to see them at all having missed all of the 90's and early 00's.

[picture_of_nectar]

^^^ well said for a noob. j/k