Anyone else think Trey has completely lost his edge?

[cactuskeeb]

I contend that the following is true regarding Trey this round of tours:

1.  His guitar tone is overbearing in its squealing-ness.  It doesn't sound like a whale communicating with other whales...it's just squealing all the time, just like the shredders do when they're not thinking about the song/music, but rather how many tricks they can pull out of their bag in the next two and a half measures.

2.  He has taken Mike's 'too many notes' critique to a whole new level; playing more notes than he ever did, especially on the last leg of the tour -- e.g., the Gorge.  Watch the youtube videos of this show, if you weren't there, and try to tell me he isn't a) playing scales exclusively, never stepping outside his comfort zone and not even venturing into interesting chromatic or atonal (non-melodic) phrasing; and b) drowning out the rest of the band with the shear powered headroom that the new sound system gives him. 

[Poster]

He hasnt lost his edge. I think hes experimenting with lots of unfamiliar gear. Every show he has a different rig. Give him some more time, and I bet hell start experimenting more. I can vouch for the Knoxville show, he wasnt drowning anybody out.

[ColForbin]

I can say that I listen to the Knoxville show a lot, and I don't think he's overbearing or playing too many notes.  But I can't speak for the gorge, as I haven't heard it.  From the shows I have listened to on this tour, he sounds great to my ears.

[sour d]

Ok, I'm gonna say it... My sister turned me on to phish in 1990 and I've been hitting shows/tours ever since. I feel the same way as cactuskeeb on this one and it kinda hurts to admit that my six string hero is sounding sub par. If you listen to any of the recent shows and a mistake is made, 9 times out of ten it was big red. As far as him getting used to a new rig, he should be able to show up with a line6 amp and a squier strat and still blow my mind. Maybe "sober trey" needs to relax and have a couple beers and sample some lot headies. That my friends is probably the magic that is missing.

[Walker done done]

I respectfully disagree as well.  I'll respond in reverse order: I don't think he's hitting too many notes at all.  In fact, I think he hit far many more notes earlier in his career when it came to jams and such.  I liken his playing back then to a dude who just blew through a bunch of chalk dust and then went out to tear ass on stage (not saying he did such back then, but simply using an analogy).  His playing was fast, furious, and note-bound a plenty.  He was younger, faster, had more ideas instantly popping up and his synapses could certainly fire far faster than today, as is probably the case with all of us after a certain point in life.  But no, I don't hearhim playing too many notes or over-playing and not allowing for more room in the music. 

Can you give us an example that specifically referrs to this circumstance of playing too many notes?  Maybe I'll be able to better see what you're saying then.

Regarding his squeel-proneness: I can't say I'll argue that point, because I hear what you're saying, but I think it's exactly as you put it....in a way, that is.  You said it sounds "like the shredders do when they're not thinking about the song/music, but rather how many tricks they can pull out of their bag in the next two and a half measures".....I don't think Trey is thinking about how many tricks he can pull out at all, but I think what's actually happening is that he's searching for something new in the music, and those pauses/whale calls/whatever you want to call them, allow him time to "see" something different, and that's not a bad thing in my mind.  Think of those as rest notes....relative to the music, that is, b/c holding those sustain notes isn't really resting at all in a "traditional" sense.....is it?  The other part of this equation is that he could be doing this on purpose, giving a different turn to the music/jam direction; in fact, I think that is the case, and directly corrolates with what I've mentioned above.  I think it's trying something new & seeing what works. 

I really don't think the "new gear" has anything to do with it...at all.

All in all, I have no complaints about his playing on this tour, other than being a little rusty or a little too reserved or a little too predictable at times.  But hey, that's generously understood in my mind - I've seen 8 shows thus far (with Indio to come) and have not had many down/dissapointing moments, if at all.  I mean, c'mon.  We've waited this long, and they're as good as they've been in 10+ years, and now we're complaining?  We've got too much time on our own hands if that's the case. 

But then again....we all already knew that 

[Poster]

^ how can you not think using completely new preamps, power amps, and whammy settings has nothing to do with his sound and playing? have you used the detune whammy settings?  either way, i think everybody is ignoring the fact that Red was free basing blow, doing smack, and eating pills all at once for a while before he got pinched.. i think all combined along with the pressure of not butchering old compositions has him sounding and playing the way he is right now.

* edit. to elaborate on the significance of the whammy settings, he basically uses it all the time now in detune mode. that gives him a more of a whiny whaling sound has he bends in and out of all those notes.

Personally, I liked the octave down whale call more ;0)

[AintNoTele]

What exactly are these settings on his whammy 2?! I have that setup and have been constantly toying with it to get the clean notes trey voices, but I only get the real high pitch/digitized sounds that I'm not looking for. I mean I love the octave high settings with the pedal to the floor, but it all sounds way too digitized (hence the digitech name...) Is trey controlling the whammy using a midi expression pedal controller of some sort to get the subtle pitch bends with the detune setting? The logical answer to me is that he has this pedal at the beginning of a chain that is run through a bunch of other madness to smooth it out. A perfect example is the Alpine Piper where he pulls some whole chord pitch bends. When I hit full chords with this pedal on any setting, the notes clash with each other (as does any octave pedal). How does he do this, and clean taboot???

I'm running a custom shop tele>digitech whammy2>henrix wah(I know its a tone sucking combo at the front, but it works great with bypass)>tube screamer silver mod>marshall bluesbreaker>H20 liquid chorus/delay all fuhrman power conditioned into a fender vibrolux

Any help would be great for whammy conditioning. its a fun pedal that needs some help to my ears.

[Poster]

lol ^ its not that complicated. set it to 2nd down. tilt the rocker all the way back. see clean signal. push pedal down for detune. my previous posts are confusing because i say "hes using it to detune" whereby iam meaning hes using the 2nd setting as a whammy bar or detune er

[Rusty the Scoob]

I think Trey has regained his edge.  He looks and mostly sounds like 1994 Trey again, and it's awesome to see.   More notes, more ideas, more smiles, more spark in his eyes.

[Poster]

I think Trey has regained his edge.  He looks and mostly sounds like 1994 Trey again, and it's awesome to see.   More notes, more ideas, more smiles, more spark in his eyes.

The smiles are the key! 

[cactuskeeb]

[. . .] and they're as good as they've been in 10+ years, and now we're complaining?  We've got too much time on our own hands if that's the case. 

But then again....we all already knew that 

Oh, they're great.  Probably, generally speaking, better than they ever were before, if one wants to consider their music as a function of the band's playing cohesively and with skill ("chops").  I just don't understand why Trey doesn't insist on the same dual condenser mic configuration that widened the stereo image of his guitar in the mix.  And why is he playing through the Mark III?  Couldn't he just have someone duplicate the same circuit but without the circuit board, thereby solving the fundamental sound issue regarding this guitar tone; namely, that it's high-frequency response tends toward thin, brittle, and squealish, while, at the same time, his low-end is all muddied out and unfocused.

[Poster]

and the truth finally comes out, Cactus is just still pissed Trey isnt using his favorite amp anymore :0(

[cactuskeeb]

Part of the truth, buddy, only part of it.  There are multiple things that I am frustrated about regarding the return of Phish -- but please understand that I do not mean that these frustrations are merely my own (meaningless) view/opinion, among a seemingly endless string of other, often diametrically opposed, views.  There is something real to the gripes, and the simple slow death of the latter will not dissolve this lack--this issue, problem, etc.--at the heart, if you will, of Phish's most distinctive sound (Trey being the agent of this sound, both vocally and instrumentally). 

[ColForbin]

and the truth finally comes out, Cactus is just still pissed Trey isnt using his favorite amp anymore :0(

Sorry Cactus brother, but that made me laugh really fucking hard.  I get what you're saying though, but I sure don't think he's lost his edge from the shows I've heard.  Just my opinion, and it's more humble than most on here.

[AintNoTele]

That detune setting is not the only thing he uses, its so subtle even on the deep setting... There has to be more to the combo, his pitch bends are so pronounced compared to what the whammy produces on its own (in detune), apart from the octave up/down settings which muddles the sound. I'm perplexed and frustrated...sorry for hijacking the thread...