The correct Weber for a Deluxe Reverb (in relation to Trey's Amp)

[raisingfreen]

Just wanted to pass along some information I obtained from C.J. Sutton at Weber Speakers. I had emailed him asking some questions about Trey's speaker used in his deluxe(s). For a while I had been wondering about this as in the pictures posted (on this forum) it appears that it is definitely an Alinco of some type, based on the Magnet Cover usage (Ceramics don't have the covers) but the brand and or specific type had eluded me. One thing to note is that I had a follow up call with him and he corrected himself, in that he recalled a conversation will Bill C. when they ordered the speakers for Trey. It was in fact a Weber Alinco Blue Dog 8ohm, 50 Watt, Light Dope. (I think he said they had ordered 3-4 of them for his amps) You will notice he mentioned Ceramic in the email to me, however is was referring to a recommendation in regards to my specific amp and sound I wanted.

I learned quite few things about speakers in general so the call was time well spent. We talked about the tonal differences between an Alinco and a Ceramic and his information seemed very logical. He mentioned that the Alinco will break up quicker however you can use a much hight wattage than your amp may specify (Deluxe being a 22 watt amp) to achieve an overall smoother tone. In this case he said Trey is using a 50 watt Alinco even though the stock speakers in Deluxe may come with 100 watt "ceramic" Jensens. The amp is pushing 22 watts but more than likely quite a bit more when its cranked. So in relation I said "why not just use a 100 watt Alinco speaker in the Deluxe" and he said "its like trying to drive a semi-truck with a 4 cylinder engine". I am paraphrasing a bit as I can't recall everything but the basics were made clear to me. In my case I needed something for my 12 watt 57 tweed deluxe and he recommended a Ceramic Weber Blue Dog (vs an Alinco) because I was looking for less breakup on lower volumes.

C.J. also mentioned that the reason the for the use of the 50 watt Alinco Blue Dog in Trey's Deluxe is that he was looking for some breakup within the amp at reasonable stage volumes (Keep in mind there is obviously much more to the amp than this as it was also modded by Bill Carruth as has been document elsewhere). That makes sense as the 100 Watt Ceramic Jenson's that the new ones come with don't break up that quickly until its pretty maxed as its generally a clean amp. I am not sure how the vintage Blackface 65 Deluxe's came stock but as I recall they had Ceramic Utah 12's that were rated at 100 watt or maybe 75?. The pictures I have seen don't indicate that they were an Alinco Based speaker when stock as there was no cover on the magnet indication a clear Ceramic.

My question was initially apples to oranges as the amps I discussed are two completely different animals however the information was great. In the end I feel pretty confident that he was not pulling my chain... as some sources about Trey's gear seem to do. I think its safe to say that Trey's Deluxe Reverbs have a 12 inch Alinco Blue Dog rated at 50 Watts with a light Dope. The picture posted within this forum seems to back this up as they look identical. So for whatever its worth there you go...!!

By the way... since he was so helpful and informative, I immediately ordered from him a 12 inch 50 Watt "Ceramic" Blue Dog with light Dope. The cost was only $105 as compared to around $250+ for the Alinco version. Different Speaker with a different purpose. Either one is not a bad price when considering we spend that on modded pedals etc...

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Email from C.J. @ Weber
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Hi,

Well, I can tell you that Trey does use our Blue Dog speaker in his Deluxe
Reverbs that Bill Carruth does for him.  It is the ceramic Blue Dog, 50w,
light dope, which is what I would recommend for your 57 deluxe.

Hope that helps!

________________
C.J. Sutton
design / maintenance
Weber Speakers
www.tedweber.com
www.webervst.com/design
Carrying on in the tradition of Ted Weber

[HunSanity]

wow only 105?  thats a great price you have to be kididng me..

i might ge tthis Delux afterall.

[raisingfreen]

HunSanity, you may want to re-read the post. I chose a "Ceramic" Weber Blue Dog for my amp specifically (57 Tweed Deluxe). It cost $105 plus shipping. The info I got (from Weber and others) was that Trey uses a "Alinco" Weber Blue Dog 50 Watt, Light Dope. Very different than a Ceramic Speaker. The Alinco breaks up differently. The stock speakers on a DR are already Ceramic Jensons that may be 75 Watt. Hence there is no or very little breakup until it gets very loud. A 50 Watt Weber Alinco  Blue in a DR would cause it to break up a bit sooner than with a similar ceramic. I am sure others can explain the differences better however keep this in mind otherwise you will be very disappointed and not get the sound you may want.

Call CJ at weber and see if he can put some better perspective on this for you. I just posted my experience with him in regards to what I did.

Enjoy.

[HunSanity]

okay thanks man.. im still up in there air as to which amp i will ultimately trade for / purchase.. but i will def look more into it if i end up going this rout and upgrading the speaker..

thanks again freen

[picture_of_nectar]

ok stupid question, but is speaker replacement easy to do yourself?

It's interesting that Trey was using the Blue Dog, the Weber site says it's a British-Vox tone.

[Walker done done]

ok stupid question, but is speaker replacement easy to do yourself?

It's interesting that Trey was using the Blue Dog, the Weber site says it's a British-Vox tone.

Yes, speaker replacement is as easy as it gets.  All you'll need is a screwdriver, and maybe a second set of hands, depending on how your chassis is set up in your cabinet.  I know with my Fender HRD I had to remove the chassis to get to the speaker and it was easier having another person there as I took the chassis out, but typically it can be done with 1 person.  Simply unplug the speaker, unscrew it from the baffle, and install the new one.  Make sure you get the correct size of speaker and check the screw placement in relation to the speaker & the baffle that holds it in place.  Also make sure you get the correct wattage/ohms for your amp.

[HunSanity]

another stupid Q...so as far as this "early breakup" talk.. considering that one wouldnt have the choice to try out a speaker or two before choosing.. would getting the Alinco 50 watt light D etc and putitng it in without making any other modifications (maybe some down the road if i found someone that knew how) sound good?  me personally i dont ever really play that loud..ill know more about how loud i need to get after my first live gig in a few months but for now, just playing in the cave etc would that sound sick with that speaker?

again forgive me im not the most technical guy when it comes to this speaker stuff.. im coming along though so bear with me...but my direct to the point Q is... if i get a new fender DRRI and buy this speaker and throw it in, will it skip a beat or will it just sound sick as hell..?

[Poster]

thats not the way an amp works.

a reissue will sound like shit, without considerable mods, you can start with the speaker, but you gotta look at the shit components, and think this stuff is cheap shit...

any speaker has a significant break in period. anybody who says they dont doesnt have a fucking clue.

i would say that a DRRI is the WRONG amp for you man

you need something with a master volume control. in fact you might want to go solid state for dependability until you get playing out more. easier on the bank and much much much dependable.

if you like that warm creamy sound of a deluxe reverb the fender frontman 65r, is as the name implies, modeled after a 65 deluxe reverb.

the neat thing aside from the great spring reverb built in, its fucking bullet proof, likes pedals, and you can get all the breakup at lower volume you could want. it also get fucking LOUD when you crank it. they are great. and youll never need tubes ever.

a real gigging player should be swapping tubes multiple times a year, and NOS tubes are hundreds of dollars a set. Dont buy an amp that works for us, get an amp that meets your needs.

trey has lots of amps firing the best tubes, with the best tech in the business, and he still depends on multiple backups at every show/practice/etc ,

also an Amp is like a pair of sneakers. do you wear the same fucking shoes everyday at every occasion? just because somebody rocks the keds doesnt mean its a good idea. step back an say, if iam in a horrid mood, can i get a heavy sound out of my gear? or how clean is my clean?

personally I like lots of flexibility, with immortal durability, at any volume, without any clicks/pops when switching tones(effects, geets, amps)

i also look at how effective iam within the frequency range of a full band. i like to explore a variety of awkward octave ranges that would be impossible to get into on a regular guitar....

see where iam going??? the more you demand, the more complicated you solution. there is no such silver bullet. not even a 150k dumble tube amp will do everything you want. (see michael kang using 1 dumble and a two rock...)

[HunSanity]

okay, thnaks for the input i appreciate it.. it is dully noted and great usage of the Keds.. that was old school.

at this point i just want a nice tube amp that sounds really good.  like i mentioned on an earlier post my father lent me one of his Peavey Classic 30's and i added it in to my rig going out into a peav classic 20 and it sounds freaking phenominal!!  so to your point, and i couldnt agree more, go with what floats YOURE boat.  great point dude.  so i think i am working my dads ear enough and giving him the mess around where he is going to end up just giving it to me and ill be hooked up like a pig in shit..wearing Keds, of course..

side note, funny you mention solid state.. as it turns out, it is sounding more and more like i am going to be playing through a set of Roland solid states, which have a line out to the PA, and the guy running the show (father in law) keeps telling me they want me to run right into the PA without micing.. which i think is pretty f'ing lame but i have to do what i have to do and they dont have much room on the board and dont wan tthe potential issues that might come out of me micing..i disagree with them but im the new guy and its not a rock band anyway.  so at this point there is a pretty good chance that whatever amp upgrade i make is staying in the man cave for now.. unless they find room for me on the board with a low (or high, i forget) impedence to mic myself to the board.  so im going to give that a try and see what kind of tones i can pull out of these rolands.. for the most part ill be playing clean and jazzy like.. but will need some dist on a few tunes as well..so thye might do a better job at covering the diff styles i will be playing..anyway enough about me.. thanks agian for the input its always appreciated and at this point, needed...

[Poster]

well you cant beat a solid state for cleans man. ask waldo who does the best jerry mods around... hell tell you to put a solid state rectifier in your tube amp and to use a jerry buffer in the geet. cleaner than the cleanest clean my friend... we could always rustle up you an analog valve tube overdrive/distortion pedal to livin up the solid state for the heavier stuff. probably sound really cool.

[HunSanity]

well you cant beat a solid state for cleans man. ask waldo who does the best jerry mods around... hell tell you to put a solid state rectifier in your tube amp and to use a jerry buffer in the geet. cleaner than the cleanest clean my friend... we could always rustle up you an analog valve tube overdrive/distortion pedal to livin up the solid state for the heavier stuff. probably sound really cool.

got you... yes im actually going to try out these rolands with my Silver tube screamers and wha etc and see how it sounds.  it will prob end up being sick, watch..

[raisingfreen]

One mention of your going to put a speaker in yourself is that after you disassemble everything and actually get the speaker in place be sure to just had tighten each bolt first in 45 degree order. DO NOT just crank down on the bolts. Hand tighten in an opposite order and then give a few light turns with your wrench on each one. It some ways its like putting in a toilet albeit much easier, but if you screw up and over tighten you can really mess up the padded area around the speaker and cause some issues. It's made to give slightly and settle in.

I agree with poster about the amps. Don't buy what everyone else is necessarily buying. I tried a Deluxe Reverb Reissue and liked it very much but..... In the end it was not my thing. I eventually traded it plus some cash for a 57 Tweed Deluxe which is actually hand wired. I liked a specific thing that it does and does well with my guitar. Because of the way AO wired my guitar I found that the Series and Split sounds gave nice semi clean/very clean but then the Parallel really kicked the amp into gear and allowed me to eliminate my need for a low setting overdrive. Between the custom pickups he made the buffer and the wiring it just turned out to be perfect and I did not expect that to happen. I demo'd it for him last week and he was very surprised just how powerful his pickups are when in Parallel configuration. I swapped the speaker to the ceramic weber blue dog specifically to get a little more headroom/volume out of the amp and thats it. Had I put the Alinco in there it would have got louder as well but also would break up pretty early. The 57 deluxe is loud but not as much as a Deluxe reverb. It can get close however when set up right.

Poster was also correct about solid state stuff. If you want to play squeaky clean try a roland or something along those lines. I had a Lab Series L5 that was great for Jerry tones. It was basically a solid state twin reverb with a great EQ system. Turn up the Treble and some mid's and cut the bass almost all the way and you have Jerry sounds. That does not work the same on a Deluxe Reverb however. You may need a little more EQ options.

I have heard many things about adding a solid state rectifier to a tube amp. I think Mercury did an article on this for certain amps. I did hear that it can help with getting more cleans. I would not recommend doing this installation however.

[raisingfreen]

HunSanity, BTW, if you can get a semi-free classic 30 from your father go for it. Those are fun amps and great on a budget. There is nothing in my opinion wrong with a peavey classic 30. You could even experiment with a speaker swap should you want to try something different. Plus they don't look half bad if that matters to you. They have a nice vintage vibe. If I had to sell my Deluxe for the money I would look for one of those for home use and jams etc... I think it even has a master volume like Poster mentioned so you could dial it in for man-cave use as well. Plus I know it will sing live as I have seen many players use them and they can be loud. It's a nice six cabinet as well not too small and has enough space. I am assuming you were referring to an older one with the tweed covering. If you can get it grab it and be happy. You already mentioned you liked that sound so I think you answered your own question as to what amp to get. If you get it and don't like it email me and I will take it off your hands.

Look at old Magnatones as well. Great sounding stuff that can sometimes be had cheap.

[picture_of_nectar]

thats not the way an amp works.

a reissue will sound like shit, without considerable mods, you can start with the speaker, but you gotta look at the shit components, and think this stuff is cheap shit...

I'm gunna have to disagree here.

Maybe you think it's too expensive for the quality of parts in it or whatever, but even a stock DRRI doesn't sound like shit. Sure it's not vintage and it's not some botique amp, but imho even a crappy tube amp sounds better then a solid state amp imho. That said, the Fender doesn't even belong in the same room as my Rivera....

But poster is right, a new speaker is prolly the last component you want to buy if you are upgrading parts in the amp.

[Poster]

picture- am i to assume youve opened up your amp and seen whats in there? and noticed that over the past 20 years of DRRI, the components vary year to year, in a big way. you could likely upgrade your reissue with about 100 bucks in components, short of throwing a new tranny, and choke in there...

but without any doubt, there are good solid state amps-> see jerry garcia  0.-

you ever played out of a frontman 65r? kinda weird to bash it before you try it... the long and the short of it, is that there are plenty of terrible tube amps. in fact, the vast majorty are shit. same with solid state amplifiers... there are more than enough shitty amps around... with a nicely modeled solid state, you can have a very quite operation, and at higher wattages, plenty of headroom. go check the harmony central reviews for a frontman 65r and find a negative review? there isnt one. they are great amps. even to the guys who run tubedepot.com say they are great <- and i think they know more about amps than both of us.