Practice your scales in the bathtub

[HunSanity]

are you in the process of memorizing your major scales?  if so, i finally got into trying to pick out the bathtub Gin solo.. and as i did i discovered that this is an exceptional tune to just practice your scales.. so just making a recommendation to get with the embassador, play in the hallway if you like...perhaps sing to the troubadours...the song is what it is as far as the chords.. but im more so taking the jam side of it in the key of F whan you play the Major scales (yes mixolydian is one of them).. and a little bit of D (key) Pentatonic...major is where its at though..up and down the neck all day..

so get down that little diddy that starts off the jam..its not too bad.. if you know your major you will find the notes..

to me, knowing what Pentatonic key jives with which major key is key to overall jamming...on top of just getitng all the modes down which is a mouthful in itself...although a lot of jams like this the pentatonic really doesnt apply.. but you can make it if you like..

Just throwing it out there for anyone who is trying to focus on learning the scales.  i know early on im my learing (and i still AM learning) it was helpful to get tips like this so im just returning the favor so hopefully someone gets something out of this poist.....instead if just going through the five modes by yourself.  put this song on and make it more fun in that specific key.  of course other tunes work for diff keys, but this one is particular good i feel as you can do whatever in the jam and the song should be etched in your brain by now, right?

and if you already got this stuff down like the back of your hand then good job.. im still finding it very helpful to stay on top of things outside of the songs i have been needing to learn lately..

[picture_of_nectar]

Hm, I thought it was in C?

[HunSanity]

ill have to mess with it tonight to double check...but i found the main phrase to sound good if you played the notes that are within the FIRST mode of major scalestarting on the 13th fret (key of F).. so your middle finger would start on the root note of F.. that said you can go 3 frets down from there and play the pentatonic which would be D pent..

so i stayed in that key during the jam.  yes the first chord of the tun is a variation of a C chord....but i found this to sound right.  i cant lie this is a recent jam im getting into trying to play (the solo jam part that is) so maybe the version i was listening to he was in a diff key?  i dont know.  let me double check tonight so i dont sound like a moron but it sounded right on up and down the neck...

god forbid i wasnt in this hell hole called work right now id go grab my gyter.

[jadirusso]

As far as I can rememer the jam section for Gin is in C Mixolydian which is effectively all the same notes as in a F major scale. It's over a C7  Gmin7 chord progression which are the V and II of F

[HunSanity]

As far as I can rememer the jam section for Gin is in C Mixolydian which is effectively all the same notes as in a F major scale. It's over a C7  Gmin7 chord progression which are the V and II of F

yes its def over c7 and gm7.. so i guess you can pick the notes out of the 5th mode in C (mixolydian) .. ill try that tonight

or you can find the notes within f major as well.. pretty awesome...

and that would make sense then as how i stumbled on it to begin with as i was doing the Major Scale practice in F (not trying to learn the song origionally) and i just so happened to pluck a few notes that sounded gin'ish.. so i went from there and it all just sounded right...

and just so we are all on the same page, when one referrs to "Mixolydian" one is merely referring to ONE of the 5 modes of the major scale in that respective key.  and im sure a lot that read this know this but i read so many people on the net confusing and using the term mixolydian sort of incorrectly (not saying you just meaning in general)

its so interesting to me how so many different keys and notes within diff keys can all relate.  guitar is such a joy i tell ya...

[jadirusso]

Well Mixolydian is a Major scale with a flat 7..so C mixolydian is like C major except it has a Bb

That grouping of notes C D E F G A Bb is basically an F major scale (but you start on the C )

[HunSanity]

okay guys   ....   for shits and giggles i went back over this and there is no question that this is in F major.  the diddy he plays down the neck from where i origionally was in the first mode.  he playes that in F around the 7th ish fret...so its one of the modes ill get the name soon.. Dorian or something .. its prob the second mode...then the jam is all over...  so anyway, i really really dont see how C major applies in any way shape or form.  so just a heads up as i have seen a lot out there.. ie comments on youtube etc claiming this is "C mix"  which again to refer to trey playing "mixlydian" is like saying Arnold Schwartzanagger ONLY killed ONE guy in ALL of his action movies.  trey plays ALL modes in very unique ways...he is so in depth with his phrasings its "other worldly"

[jadirusso]

It is C Mixolydian because the tonal center of the C7 is a C and not an F.. but yes you are correct the notes of an F Major are the same notes as in the C Mixolydian scale..


From Wikipedia:
This modern scale has the same series of tones and semitones as the major scale, except the fifth (dominant) note is taken as the tonic or starting (beginning) pitch of the scale. It may also be considered a major scale with the leading tone moved down by a semitone.[5]

The order of tones and semitones in a Mixolydian scale is TTSTTST (T = tone; S = semitone), while the major scale is TTSTTTS. The key signature varies accordingly (it will be the same as that of the major key a fifth below).[5]

Some examples:

Wikimedia Commons has media related to: Musical scale
The G Mixolydian mode (Based on C major - on a piano it is all the white keys from one G to the next. GABCDEFG)[5]
The C Mixolydian mode (Based on F major. CDEFGAB♭C)[5]

[HunSanity]

yeah from a theory standpoint thats very interesting... but last night i tried the Mixolydian mode in C and had to play notes outside of the scale to hit all the notes in the main riff.  the ber ner ner ner nernt nernt part...however ALL of those notes are just simply in F.. i guess my Q is if they are the same notes, then why do i have to play notes outside the C mix scale to pick up all these notes?  and if that is the case then why bother calling it C?  C mix just simply does not flow from where i am at this point in the game..

so this is why im scrathcing my head as to why people go with saying its C mix (which again, is only ONE mode) vs just cutting to the chase and playing and calling it F major...

isnt it like driving around the block four times to get home instead of just parking the first time you pass your house? or whatever.

just asking these questions as i am trying to learn everthing possible, not trying to be a pain..

[jadirusso]

Since the notes in C Mixo are the same as the notes in F major I'm not sure how the notes in F major work but the notes in C Mixo don't..The chord progression does change for the second half of that phrase to F Eb and Eb is not in either F major (C mixo) so the second half of that phrase is a touch different.
The main reason tho that people say C Mixo is because the root of the C7  is C and not an F.. It's all about which notes are emphsized

I'll admit while I understand this stuff I'm not the best teacher..

[GonePhishing46]

Hun, the solo part you are refering to may actually contain some different notes than the C Mixolydian (I don't have my guitar handy), but when they actually start jamming, after that part, I'm certain it's the C Mixolydian. The reason people are saying that playing the C mixolydian instead of the F major is because you have to return to a different note, hence mixolydian mode, to give your scale a certain "flavor." You can play the F major notes but you would have to emphasize different notes in the scale other than the root, F, to make it work... I know what you're saying though. I personally use C Mixolydian and throw in some C Pentatonic notes for added tension occasionally. Try this approach as well.

[jadirusso]

Yeah GonePhishing is saying the same thing I'm trying to say so if he makes more sense then me that's good..

[GonePhishing46]

Check this out http://highcountryguitar.com/

And go to the Modes Workshop section. It's written by the guitarist from Phix. He covers it pretty well and uses bands we listen to haha. I haven't had that much formal trainig so this helped me understand it better. Use the loops he includes, to try some of the modes out when your learning them.

[HunSanity]

Hun, the solo part you are refering to may actually contain some different notes than the C Mixolydian (I don't have my guitar handy), but when they actually start jamming, after that part, I'm certain it's the C Mixolydian. The reason people are saying that playing the C mixolydian instead of the F major is because you have to return to a different note, hence mixolydian mode, to give your scale a certain "flavor." You can play the F major notes but you would have to emphasize different notes in the scale other than the root, F, to make it work... I know what you're saying though. I personally use C Mixolydian and throw in some C Pentatonic notes for added tension occasionally. Try this approach as well.

where i still think there is a little confusion on my end, and you guys seem to know your thery a lil better then me, so forgive me.. but agian where i am still a lil stuck is why people emphasize so much that it is in MIXO.... the jam part i mean..., saying the Jam is in C Mix (or ANY mix) for that matter suggest that you stay on the same part of the fret board the whole time.  and if anyone watches trey fingers its clearly obv that he doesnt ONLY play mixo... in fact he hardly uses his pinky when he solo's.. he slides his index and ring ringer up vs using the pinky)  agian, this isnt the case as you are going up and down the neck to give your phrasing diff character.. unless i learned a diff way or something.  but they way i was taught, mixo is merely one mode (the 5th mode to be exact) of the major scale.  so why use the term MIXO when you describe a key?  so maybe you guy are referring to something else.  oh well no need to rack your brain trying to explain agina im not trying to be a pain, all im saying is that ALL modes of the Magor scale in the key of F..

now where i think i DO follow you is when you say the second part of the diddy (which to be honest i have not gotten to yet, i skip right to the jam for now for scale practice..its only been a day or two) has the c mix notes.  maybe once i tackle THAT i will follow you more.

but for now im calling it the key of F despite the fact the chord progression is (C7 Gm7).. just because those are the chords doesnt necessarily mean that it identifies the KEy of the jam, right?  that was just a thinking out loud Q, no need to answer..

i just feel that when people referr to trey or whatever playing in MIXO all the time are not giving enough credit the big picture...

[HunSanity]

Check this out http://highcountryguitar.com/

And go to the Modes Workshop section. It's written by the guitarist from Phix. He covers it pretty well and uses bands we listen to haha. I haven't had that much formal trainig so this helped me understand it better. Use the loops he includes, to try some of the modes out when your learning them.

cool thanks i will check that out.  appreciate the thought!!