Trey and his delay

[treysafuckingod]

So I saw this great video of phish playing prince caspian on new years and trey seems to be using a delay pedal during his solo, but it sounds as though there is more to it. I know he was using an ibanez dm2000 which I dont really know much about. Anyone know how he's getting this sound?

thanks

heres the video
the sound quality isn't great but its a great song
his solo starts at about 4:32

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9bjot-Ic98

[sour d]

He's using the reverse on his boomerang. With the boomerang you can mute your dry signal and just hear the reverse repeats. Notice how what his fingers are playing and what you are hearing are like 2 beats away from each other. That's because you hit record then wait a couple beats and then hit it again to determine how long the reverse delay will be. Really fun to do.

[treysafuckingod]

thanks for the reply.
would you mind explaining a little more how he actually uses it?
i am looking at this eh hazari stereo delay and it seems to get a similar sound but im not really sure

[YouEnjoyMyReba]

The boomerang phrase sampler has a direction button on it that you can use to reverse your loops.  If you press the reverse button and then the record button twice, using the second tap of the record button to time the delay of the notes being played, it will play the notes you play in reverse.  There is also a mute switch on the boomerang, so you can choose to have your regular notes and the delayed notes in reverse or just the reverse notes.

[strangedesign]

this is from the manual
http://www.strangedesign.org/rigs/details.php?artistID=3&equipmentID=18
http://www.boomerangmusic.com/Rang%20Plus/V1%20Manual.html



How the Buttons Work

        While most of the functions provided by the Boomerang® Phrase Sampler are fairly obvious, it is helpful to describe each foot switch button in some detail as there are several hidden features you will want to know about.  In particular, the order and combination of button presses alter some of the functions, and a brief read through these descriptions may help save you some time.  If things do happen to get a little out of control just remember to push the STOP button and take a second to collect your thoughts.

        Just so we are all on the same page, the buttons with a second label in parentheses may be referenced by either name.

        RECORD

        This button is probably the most used of all.  When it is pressed, recording begins and the RECORD LED lights up brightly.  A second press ends the recording and the Boomerang® Phrase Sampler begins playing back; the PLAY LED lights up brightly to indicate the change.  If no other buttons are pressed, playback will continue indefinitely, repeating over and over the sounds recorded during the time between the two button presses.  During playback the RECORD button can be pressed again and a new recording will begin.  Recording erases any previously stored sounds.  During playback the RECORD LED will blink briefly at the beginning of the loop each time it comes around; this helps in identifying the loop start point for stacking additional parts.

        If the system reaches the end of available memory during recording, a special mode will be entered where all LED's are turned on brightly; then the user must press either RECORD or PLAY.  Pressing RECORD will begin a new recording and the previous one will be lost.  Pressing PLAY initiates playback and preserves the recorded material.

        PLAY (STOP)

        This button has different functions depending on what the Boomerang® Phrase Sampler is currently doing, hence the two-part name.  If the Rang™ looper is recording, pressing STOP halts the recording and the unit becomes idle; your music is recorded and ready for playback.  If the Rang™ looper is playing back, pressing STOP halts playback and the unit becomes idle.

        If the Boomerang® Phrase Sampler is idle, pressing PLAY starts playback of whatever was last recorded, in a continuously looping manner.  During playback the PLAY LED will be on and the RECORD LED will blink at the beginning of each pass through the loop.

        ONCE

        As with the previous buttons, this one has different functions depending on what the Boomerang® Phrase Sampler is currently doing.  Pressing ONCE while recording will halt recording and initiate an immediate playback of the signal just recorded, but the loop will playback only once.  Pressing ONCE during playback tells the Boomerang® Phrase Sampler to finish playing the loop and then stop.  This is handy for terminating a loop without abruptly stopping it in the middle, which would happen if the STOP button was pressed.  If the Boomerang® Phrase Sampler is idle, pressing ONCE will playback your recorded loop one time.  After pressing this button, the ONCE LED will be turned on letting you know this is the last time through your loop.

        There is an interesting twist in the way the ONCE button works.  Pressing it while the ONCE LED is on will always immediately restart playback.  Repeated presses produces a stutter effect sort of like record scratching.

        The first three buttons, RECORD, PLAY and ONCE, were designed to provide any possible sequence of actions: record followed by looping, record and then stop, record and then playback once, playback once and then stop, etc.

        DIRECTION

        The DIRECTION button does just what you think... most of the time.  If the unit is playing back, pressing this button will immediately reverse the direction through your loop, resulting in reversed audio output.  DIRECTION can be pressed any number of times during playback with a resulting instantaneous reversal of playback direction with each press.  Try this with recorded speech; it'll crack you up!

        If the DIRECTION button is pressed so the REVERSE LED is on before the recording process begins, a special continuous-reverse mode can be entered where the system is continually re-recording new sound while simultaneously playing the previously recorded sounds in reverse.  Press the RECORD button twice to define a recording length and then start jamming.  Both the RECORD and PLAY LED's will become brightly lit, along with the REVERSE LED, to denote this unique mode.  This produces a continuous, reversed output as the user continues to play and provide the Rang™ looper with new licks.  Turn off the through signal by pressing the THRU MUTE switch so that only the reversed signal is present and you can play a reverse solo live!  It is usually best to define a relatively short loop for this purpose so you are playing just a little ahead of the accompaniment so chord changes can be easily anticipated.  I recommend one or two measures.  But, as with all features of the Boomerang® Phrase Sampler, there are no rules and experimentation is the name of the game.

        If DIRECTION is pressed during the recording process the system will be armed to enter the reverse playback mode immediately at the point when the end of the loop is defined by the second press of the RECORD button.

        STACK (SPEED)

        This button has two main functions.  If the unit is idle, it selects the sample rate: full or half speed.  Full speed offers twice the bandwidth but reduces the recording time available.  Half speed offers double recording time at the expense of bandwidth.  The user can decide which mode to use based on his needs at the time.  Sounds recorded at full speed may be played at half speed by stopping the system and changing the speed before the next playback.  This is handy when trying to learn difficult licks from a CD or tape.  Signals recorded at half speed may also be played back at full speed with a resulting chipmunk effect.  Stacking on a bass line is also possible by recording at half speed and adding the bass line at full speed.  When the result is played back at half speed the bass line will be dropped an octave.

        If STACK is pressed during playback, the system will accept additional input and add it to the existing loop so that on the next pass through the loop, both parts will playback together.  This stacking of parts will continue for as long as the STACK button is held down.  This is different than the other buttons, which are operated with a single tap.  There is no hard limit to the number of parts that can be added in this manner, in fact a whole song can be created in just a few minutes by stacking on various parts, one by one.  If the Boomerang® Phrase Sampler is connected to a small mixing console, different instruments and microphones can be easily selected and added to the mix.  By controlling the relative levels of each new addition the final result will sound well balanced; this is an experience thing.  Also note that the stacking feature works during reversed playback so any part can be recorded forward or reversed.

        Since the stacked signals are being added together, there is a practical upper limit to how large they can grow after repeated stacking.  The user should be aware that the system will internally attenuate the original loop by about 2.5dB to help insure no overloading will occur.  It may take a little practice, but once you find the best settings stacking will be easy and predictable.

        Since the system is slightly attenuating the loop signal while the STACK button is pressed, if the STACK button is held down but no new signal is input, the result will be a very smooth fade-out of the recorded loop.  This can be cool.

        If the loop is very short and the STACK button is held down while you continue to play, the effect is essentially the same as that of a conventional delay with a very slow decay setting.  The OUTPUT LEVEL roller then becomes the effect/clean mix control.  The cool thing is that the delay time is precisely controlled by two presses of the RECORD button, so it will be just what you need at the moment.

Tips  &  Suggestions

        It's difficult to adequately describe the effects you can get using the Boomerang® Phrase Sampler.  Like many products you simply must use it for yourself to appreciate how it fits into your way of making music.  We heartily encourage you to experiment; and please call us if you come up with a new or unique way of using your Rang™ looper.  The following list contains suggestions for basic Boomerang® Phrase Sampler control technique, creative ways to use a Rang™ looper and ways to care for and get the maximum life out of your unit.

*  If you are having trouble creating smooth loops, or said another way, if there is always a little hiccup at the end of your loops, then try this.  Concentrate on pressing the RECORD button along with your natural foot tap; make your button presses on the first beat of the measure.

*  Try using a microphone to record percussion instruments and create a loop with a groove.  Use it to work out a new progression or just jam.

*  If you are using a Rang™ looper live, try giving the drummer the AUX OUT signal.  This signal does not include the through sound, and should be easier to follow like a click track.  The drummer hears only the sampled loop playing back.

*   Create a bass part by sampling at the high rate and playing back at the slow rate.  This is easiest to do if you play simple, clean parts.  Remember that the tempo, as well as the pitch, will be cut in half, so play the bass part twice as fast as you will want to hear it.

*  If you own a keyboard sampler, use the Rang™ looper to create multi-timbral samples.  For example, you could stack a screaming guitar note, a bass note and a percussion hit.  When it sounds just right, sample it directly into your keyboard.

*  If you are using the Rang™ looper to learn a song, and you want to quickly get to the end of the recorded music, use the REVERSE button.  Simply start playback and press REVERSE to position near the end of the recorded segment instead of listening from beginning.  Tap REVERSE again to play the material in the proper forward fashion.

*  There are two types of echo or delay effects the Rang™ looper can create.  One was previously described in the STACK(SPEED) section; the other uses the continuous reverse mode.  Starting with the unit in idle, press REVERSE and observe the brightly lit REVERSE LED; quickly tap the RECORD button twice, and observe the RECORD and PLAY LED's are brightly lit.  Leave the through signal enabled and begin playing; this creates an unusual reversed slap-back echo effect.  Use the OUTPUT LEVEL to set effect/clean mix.

*  Play in continuous-reverse mode with through enabled and attempt to create a phrase that harmonizes with itself in reverse.  The classical composers did stuff like this to keep from getting bored on rainy afternoons!

*  I call this colliding reverse chords, and it's a guitar thing.  Record a part that is just a series of one-strum chords that you let ring out.  Play this in reverse and stack on the same chords an octave higher.  The trick is to play the second part chords just when the first part chords hit their peak volume.  If this makes sense and you get it right, it's way cool.

*  Without playing your instrument, press the STACK button during playback.  Your loop will smoothly fade into oblivion.  This works best with short loops.

*  Suppose you've created a great sounding loop, but there's one note that's too loud.  It can be fixed by pressing the STACK button when that note plays.  If you are not inputing a new part, this has the effect of attenuating that portion of the loop.  One or two times should do the trick.

*  Earlier we recommended that the Rang™ looper be at the end of the signal processing chain.  Well, here's a time when it would be useful to have it at the very front of the signal processing chain.  If you are trying to tweak a desired effect or get that perfect pre-amp setting, let the Boomerang® Phrase Sampler substitute for your playing while you adjust the effect parameters.  Just create a loop in the appropriate playing style and let it rip while you put your instrument down and concentrate on tweaking!

*  For lowest noise and distortion as well as maximum headroom select an input/output range which allows the TRIM control to be set closest to the center.  Because the CLIP LED indicates clipping only at the input to the A/D converter it is possible that clipping can occur in the pre-amp section and not be indicated by the CLIP LED.  It is also possible for clipping to occur in the output sections even though no clipping was indicated during recording.  Both of these situations are generally the result of using signals which are too large for the selected range or extreme settings of the TRIM control.  If you hear distortion but no clipping is indicated try using a different input/output range setting.

*  The Boomerang® Phrase Sampler is great for learning songs off of CDs or tapes.  Capture the portion of the song you want to work on and play it as needed to hear what you're after.  If the part is fast, you can slow it down by switching to half-speed mode and then playing back.  This will drop the part an octave so it'll be in the same key.  If you want to slow down a part so that it is easier to hear, but maintain the original pitch, here's a technique that works pretty well.  Place a pitch shifter between the Rang™ looper's output and your amplifier, and set it to 1 octave up.

*  The foot buttons and OUTPUT LEVEL roller are designed to be fast and sensitive requiring only a minimal press for accurate timing of loops and other operations.  While quite sturdy they may be damaged by heavy 'stomping'.  The roller is designed for convenient foot adjustment but is not capable of supporting the weight of a person.  Using a light touch will help to insure reliable and long-lived operation of these components.

[ColForbin]

The boomerang phrase sampler has a direction button on it that you can use to reverse your loops.  If you press the reverse button and then the record button twice, using the second tap of the record button to time the delay of the notes being played, it will play the notes you play in reverse.  There is also a mute switch on the boomerang, so you can choose to have your regular notes and the delayed notes in reverse or just the reverse notes.

I wish to inquire about First Tube.  On one of the breaks of the main riff, where he records that whammy loop that will continue to play while he does the next main progression.  Is that tone achieved by this method as well?  That sounds jumbled, but hopefully you will know what I mean....

[jadirusso]

Forbin If I understand your question correctly I think the answer is no. Basically all Trey does during that part is loop in the whammy dive part and let it keep playing while he plays the next section of the melody. I don't believe that part is using reverse at all. Now of course later on in the song he definitely uses the reverse for the solo section of the song.

[ColForbin]

That is exactly what I was asking, thanks brother.

[Armenian Man]

SOOOO, i know this might seem redundant, but i understand the whole reverse thing, but how does he use the whammy pitch dive to start the loop while keeping the time...it seems like you need two feet for that.  When i use my boomerang, i always have a delay in where i hit record and then go over to the whammy....does he do that in stack mode have a rythm already recorded?

[jadirusso]

Hi Armenian Man.. Welcome. Well right before that whammy loop he hits a chord and lets it ring so I'm guessing that at that point he sets the loop length and puts it in stack mode so that it's ready for the whammy dive. Perhaps he's got some other way of doing this but I've been successful with this method before.

[sour d]

SOOOO, i know this might seem redundant, but i understand the whole reverse thing, but how does he use the whammy pitch dive to start the loop while keeping the time...it seems like you need two feet for that.  When i use my boomerang, i always have a delay in where i hit record and then go over to the whammy....does he do that in stack mode have a rythm already recorded?

Try turning on your dm2000 (modulation off) with the volume all the way down on your guitar. Hit a note with the whammy set to 1 oct up or 2 oct up and the treadle toe down. Then pull the treadle back to the heel down position while you roll your volume knob up on your guitar. Let that siren sound decay in the dm2000 with your volume back off on the guitar until it hits a decent volume level. Then hit record on the boomerang and record a some of it. Bypass the dm2000 and now you can bring that siren sound in and out with the volume roller on the boomerang or stack on top of it or whatever. Does that make sense? Sounds like it would take 5 minutes to do this but you can actually do it pretty quick with some practice.

[Armenian Man]

Yes i do understand...wish i had one of those, but in regards to letting the chord ring out, the other option noted above, it seems as though it would pick the end of that chord up in the loop, but i guess he does it after the end of it...sometimes it just seems almost imediate...he must be fast on those feet!!!

[Stiles12]

hey guys, been a while..

I found it best to put your whammy and boomerang in a loop of some sort... I use GCX ground controll and audio switcher these days.... and keep the loop off when you are playing you can always click on the boomerang in record mode for X amount of time and then click it off you can also set your whammy for what ever octave range your trying to pull across without changing what your doing. then when you are ready to set a loop click on the (loop, for lack of better words) with the whammy and boomerang in it, hit stack and move the wammy treedle (and the guitar volume when you are comfortable). click stack again and you just set a loop in about 2 seconds with out any extra noise and tap dancing going on.
practice makes this a very cool but very easy thing to fill some air in your band playing.