Why all the Haters??

[PlayItLeo17]

Hey guys just gonna throw this out there, but why does everybody seem that they can critique and hate on Phish and ultimately Trey's playing at every moment of every show. I was listening the the stream at Jones Beach earlier and everybody and their mother think that They can talk shit (pardon my language) about a bad opener or how trey's whale tone is too heavy. It really kills me and I'm just trying to get some responses to this. I mean...how great of a band is PHISH. Their the greatest musicians for the music they play. It's an eye opener and I hate when ppl get so synthesized to the yuppies that say phish was wayyyy better in 97' or 94'. I mean, obviously their not going to play like they did then, but PHISH has started a new era in their lives and it's great....

[cactuskeeb]

Hey guys just gonna throw this out there, but why does everybody seem that they can critique and hate on Phish and ultimately Trey's playing at every moment of every show. I was listening the the stream at Jones Beach earlier and everybody and their mother think that They can talk shit (pardon my language) about a bad opener or how trey's whale tone is too heavy. It really kills me and I'm just trying to get some responses to this. I mean...how great of a band is PHISH. Their the greatest musicians for the music they play. It's an eye opener and I hate when ppl get so synthesized to the yuppies that say phish was wayyyy better in 97' or 94'. I mean, obviously their not going to play like they did then, but PHISH has started a new era in their lives and it's great....

The reason so many people vamp on the greatness of '94 or '97 has a lot to do with the fact that in both these years, you have a marked change in the way the band now appeared, aesthetically and musically, to its audience.  These kinds of sea change events, in the "life" of this admittedly great band regardless of the era in their history, unfortunately are not presenting like they more-or-less obviously once did.  Furthermore, it is frustrating for many, especially when all this seems to indicate that there will not be those kinds of outstanding moments in which Phish enters a new phase and, consequently, the audience's excitement--our excitement--peaks.

(EDIT: You could also argue that in both these years, Trey adopted a new guitar as his standard; this likely had a huge impact on Phish (see above, sea change) since Trey is the leader and, I would argue, puts forth the most impetus for the band's creative drive.  That being said, perhaps it's a good sign right now to see him playing a guitar seeming slated to become his new standard.)

[Poster]

meh people all just have their own favorite shows, and when they dont hear things the way they want, they bitch.

and remember Phish has about 3x as many fans as Panic, Cheese, STS9, bisco (lol), etc. So when there is some degree of jamming, and there are THAT many

people paying to see it, opinions are going to run wild in regard to how well they played, etc.

dont hate! educate! turn around and explain to those bitches that their bad vibe is likely making the jams not so great. :0)

[patrickstefanski]

i also think that phish (and a lot of jam bands) attract more musicians as well.  generally people who love to play love to listen to a band like phish moreso then the jonas bros. or something because the music is interesting both aesthetically and theory-wise.   

and a lot of people who play music have GIANT egos and think they are awesome....and people like that tend to attack people in the spotlight.

"Oh trey USED to be good, but now he is just showboating"  "Trey was great blah blah blah"

It's really just people stroking their own ego because they know they will never achieve half the success Phish has.

just my 2cents.

[Poster]

i dont think its jealousy as much as a group mentality. people are just like monkeys in that regard.

id argue there arent many musicians left anywhere on earth, maybe a few thousand, as its nearly impossible to make a living playing music professionally. and

through digital mediums, the understanding of the fundamentals of music are being lost. (for my hypothesis on where music is ultimately destined, see mad max
beyond thunderdome's plane children)

more often than not, its hobbyists and enthusiasts that simply are hyper critical due to being submerged in an internet culture of predicated by instant

gratification. they have taken the time to listen to these songs a bunch of times, so whereby, in a plebian sense, they feel due epic performances of said

material.

OR they just are getting older, seeing things a little more clear eyed, and realizing the flubs were always there.

say what you will, but Phish flubs all the time, yup sometimes they have nights that are magical, but they are very human... and thats one of the things that makes them a great band.

but again, I would like to see them recording even more, probably my only criticism beyond ticket prices, as its seems beating these old songs to death is

completely and utterly unnecessary. with nearly unlimited resources, the scope, and variety of recording projects could blaze new paths.

do a new record every year? i think thats reasonable enough.

[Walker done done]

but again, I would like to see them recording even more, probably my only criticism beyond ticket prices, as its seems beating these old songs to death is

completely and utterly unnecessary. with nearly unlimited resources, the scope, and variety of recording projects could blaze new paths.

do a new record every year? i think thats reasonable enough.

I like some of your points, but I think these ones are a little off. 

First off, Phish ticket prices are generously low in comparison.  'Nuff said there.

Second, beating old songs to death?  How about beating NEW songs to death???  Take a look at how many times they've played Ocelot, Light, KDF, TTE, etc. over the past year and a half.  Too many, IMO.  It's been a pet peave of mine since late last year.  Sure, the same can be said for Golgi, Possum, YEM, DWD, Antelope, etc. as well....but on the same side of that coin you've got some of the other older stuff (Forbin's, et al) that they rarely play, and I really wish they would start playing more of that stuff instead of sprinkling it in like they do now.  Yes, the sprinkle effect makes for a treat, but quite honestly I'm kind of -- dare I say (gasp!) -- getting tired of the monotony of the setlists.  Hey, anyone for an Antelope set ender?  How about a Rock and Roll or Down with Disease to open set 2?  What's that, a YEM to close set 2?  You've got to be kidding me!  Loved how they threw it in mid-set last night....more of that please!!!  Mix it up once in a while...you know, like you USED to. 

I guess what I'm saying is Phish for me has become much more predictable than I care for, which is totally opposite of one of the reasons I love them.  I still love the band though, and couldn't be more happy that I get to see them nowadays, so don't mistake my nitpicking for dumping on them as the original post had touched on.  Anyone who tries to say they're not as good as they used to be or any vein even close to that should immediately have their soap box kicked out from underneath them.

[picture_of_nectar]

I think people appreciate phish (or not) from 1 of 2 perspectives. Either an inttelectual or a spiritual perspective. The intellectuals want to analyse every song, every note even, they are allways looking for perfection and hence will never be fully satisfied. They may enjoy being hyper analytical, as if the music is some math equation with exact precision. As they spend their time comparing, I feel they miss out on the bigger picture. Their loss.

The spiritual phan understands that a perfect sequence of notes or song selection isn't what IT is all about. The moments of bliss that happen when the four guys on stage let go of their egos, stop thinking or sryiving for perfection, and allow themselves to channel the universal music which is out there for anyone to tap into. These phans strive to reach a higher place within themselves (sober or not) through something that's bigger then individual notes or songs. It is the appreciation for the experience as a whole, the people included, and the appreciation for life. It's a time to reflect and rejoice. This phan doesn't even notice a flub, or shrugs it off as human imperfection, or realizes it is the bandtrying to hard to be perfect and appease the intellectuals.

Not saying that a phan can't balance both perspectives. Just that the haters don't. This is just something I was tripping on the last run. Take it for what it's worth.   

[beebs]

I'm glad that someone has brought this up here for a nice discussion unlike PT where by now you would have people saying Trey sucks, phish sucks yadda yadda. I do think that each member of the band has continued to improve over the last several years. However, the pressure to bring back what the audience wants is hampering their collective ability to fully let go and continue where they left off, constantly changing and recreating themselves. I thought it was pretty cheesy to wrap up a Ross comp and give it to Trey. He is the artist/musician here, yet fans are telling him what we expect and want. What is music if you are simply playing for the audiences demands? It's called pop. Now it's "bring back this" and "play like you did during this time period"... This has effectively nerfed the ability for them to expand because a lot of fans out there have become so tightly centered around what they consider to be "the best" periods, that they won't accept any evolution to what could become an even better period. Perhaps the hiati has left most fans with plenty of time to listen to years of recorded shows and begin hammering down on their favorites. Now anything else sounds foreign and therefore obsolete. The nostalgic sense has come completely from the fan base, because some are not willing to let the band evolve away from certain periods. I think that the band is trying to redeem themselves from what happened during phase II, so they are really trying to reach out to the fans and please them. We all need to clear our minds and start fresh. If I had never heard a single phish show and went and watched them now, I would probably have a heart attack and die from excitement. Let's just say that a majority of us have been desensitized.

If you want to see pure energy, and unadulterated creation, I suggest you hit up some TAB shows (if you aren't too desensitized for them). The small venues and tightened down group really nailed it this winter. I have not seen as good of a show in the last 5 years as I did at the tabernacle. It was pure bliss...

[deadbearbobby]

i also think that phish (and a lot of jam bands) attract more musicians as well.  generally people who love to play love to listen to a band like phish moreso then the jonas bros. or something because the music is interesting both aesthetically and theory-wise.   

and a lot of people who play music have GIANT egos and think they are awesome....and people like that tend to attack people in the spotlight.

"Oh trey USED to be good, but now he is just showboating"  "Trey was great blah blah blah"

It's really just people stroking their own ego because they know they will never achieve half the success Phish has.

just my 2cents.

i can see that... i think a lot of use on the forum are musicians though, and we seem to not really think we are hot shit and we go to phish shows... perhaps we are just the few? anyway... the haters get to me too... in particualr the frat "bros" that show up wacked out on E or pills and bitch that the show wasent as good as they hoped.