Ever have to fire someone in your band?

[phishlips]

Hey Walker, please don't take too much offense by what I'm saying.  Listening to your stuff its obvious that you guys play really well and have spent lots of time with your instruments.  Song selections were great as well.  What I was thinking while hearing it was that it sounds exactly like my band, the whole thing.  The room, the crowd, the songs, pretty much everything.  I guess listening to it I heard a lot of the same little things that I hear my band do and don't do that frustrate me.  Things that are easily fixed if they're just recognized and then dissected, but if its always gig, gig, gig and never practice we end up playing something not quite how it "should be" over and over.   I apologize if my posts are coming off as rants, I really am not trying to give the text "attitude" or sound mean spirited or defensive.  Practice to me just seems soo important.  Even with having to get through the summer with a lot of drummers subbing in, its been a great year for the band and I'm just trying to keep that ball rolling.  Like I mentioned though, we did have a talk with our drummer and it seems to have gotten him more on track with what we're looking to do and he wants to be part of it.  This past week we started recording a new demo/sampler for our press kit.  When we get it done I'll give ya a link to check it out and give me some feedback on it.  I'd really appreciate your opinions.

Hope you guys all had fun last night in AC.

[picture_of_nectar]

Glad to hear that you gave your drummer the opportunity to step up and meet you needs, or meet you in the middle at least.

I agree on the whole practice thing.

[Walker done done]

Oh no offense taken, I completely get what you're saying.  I want to respond further but just got home and am beat...

[Rusty the Scoob]

Weekly practices for a year?   I'm sorry but I just had to quit your band. 

If members are showing up without having learned the material that you agreed to learn, that's a lack of professionalism - There is no quicker way to get yourself fired as a pro than to show up unprepared and waste everybody's time.  Even if you have the luxury of a rehearsal, it should sound at least 95% right on the very first run-through.   

I believe it was probably my side band that you were referring to above with the uneven vocals and unfocused moments, not Walkers?  I tend to agree with your assessment - it's just a group I helped throw together to get some experience for a very green friend of mine and to get my GF used to playing in the jam-band scene a little, as well as for me to learn a little bit about John Kahn.   I didn't have to beg any friends to come out, just let some of Fennario's fans know what we were up to and it was a successful enough gig that we were asked back.


My regular band is the one that last practiced in March.  On Saturday we debuted Help/Slip/Franklin - this is literally the first time we'd run through it together, we didn't even have our usual soundcheck talk-through since it was a multi-band event and we were the headliners.

http://www.mediafire.com/file/j50ei3thk7mz13e/Help-Slip.mp3

http://www.mediafire.com/file/3ss31dqvcq9ba88/Franklin.mp3

I'll have to mention the drummers' hiccup between Slipknot and Franklins before we play it again... but I can't be too hard on them considering the two drummers had never worked together before (or maybe once, a couple of years ago - not sure), and Toby hadn't touched a pair of drumsticks in 3 months. 

[Walker done done]

I told Toby and I'll echo it here, I think it was an extrememly well played rendition all things considered.  Especially for not even rehearsing it once!  I would've had the same reaction had you practiced it once or twice, but for just getting up there and letting it fly, I commend you guys - a job well done, indeed!

Psyched you guys finally got the wherewithall to hit that suite too - I've been in Toby's ear about it since I came down and saw you guys play at that hookah lounge.  Way to go!

[Rusty the Scoob]

Poor Toby... he's been in Mike's ear about it since the day we formed the band... then two years later I send one e-mail and just like that, we learned it.  

Of course I made a compelling case - 1. it's a harder song on bass than drums, and 2. I learned it pretty successfully when I filled in with kind of a mediocre Dead band up in NH, and it turned out to be less hard than I thought.  - Again with no rehearsal at all, except for the drummer who I'd met once before, I first met these guys the day of the gig.

Edit: Better link:  http://www.mediafire.com/?n94q5z39vo4y4

[phishlips]

Rusty, your cracking me up man.  We're gonna just have to agree to disagree on practicing, and thats cool.  I'd be perfectly happy with practicing once a week for the rest of my life, that to me is a current, working, tight, productive, committed group.  Thats just me though, your recordings sound great and what your doing obviously works for ya.

I have no doubt that at the beginning of October our boy Trey told the rest of the band, "oh hey guys we're gonna cover Little Feats Waiting for Columbus album, its 27 songs, just give it a listen too and learn your parts, see ya in AC!"  Just like all the other albums they've covered....just messin with ya Rusty!

[picture_of_nectar]

According to Trey in 2004 interviews (like Charlie Rose) the downfall of Phish was when they stopped practicing.

[Rusty the Scoob]

Well, they sure didn't practice Little Feat once a week for a year!   And if you believe the new Phish bio, they first had the idea to cover DSOTM about 90 minutes before showtime. 


Sure, Phish's practice routine in the early years was legendary and it absolutely helped them - but they also had no day jobs, no wives, no kids, and all lived within a block or two of the practice space. 


I'm not saying that band practice doesn't improve things if it's done right.  But I've been in too many bands where you get the whole band together and someone hasn't spent a minute on their part, hasn't even listened to the song, wants it played over the PA for them, and then you all have to sit there while they learn their part.   I've even been that guy myself sometimes in the past, but in a strong band that should never happen - you're just wasting everybody's time and causing the other members to lose focus.

The trouble with weekly practices is that you're almost gauranteeing that members won't be prepared for them - it takes a solid few hours of individual practice to properly learn new tunes, and it's nearly impossible for a working adult to devote two nights a week to a band plus whatever gigs are on the schedule.


I'm not going to agree to disagree on this because I've been in too many bands that practiced once a week for 6 months or even a year and still sucked.   Now I'm in one that practices twice a year but each member is a accountable for their individual preparation and we're pretty damn good, and we also have the widest, most challenging playlist of any band I've ever been in. 

[phishlips]

Aahhhh Russ, we could argue this till we die.  I like practice, you do not.   Sorry you've had such lousy experience with practice as a full band.  Someone coming to practice not prepared is a waste of other people's time, but usually you throw him the chords and off you go.  I just prefer not to do that at a show when possible.

[Rusty the Scoob]

We're not arguing.  We'd be arguing if you were making valid points.

"throw him the chords and off you go"?  Now I've not only quit your band but I've fired one of your members, too.  What's his/her excuse for not coming prepared?

I actuallly enjoy practice if everybody shows up prepared and ready to work.  If it's going to be just hangout time instead, then I want beers, a grill, and a football game, not to stand around with instruments and watch people learn songs.

[phishlips]

We're not arguing.  We'd be arguing if you were making valid points.



...nice.  arrogant know-it-all,.... Christ!!!!

I would like to thank everyone though for chiming in on my issue that has been resolved for the most part I'm happy to say.  Like I mentioned earlier, we are finishing up a new demo/sampler that I will post soon, I think 2011 will be even better than 2010 for us.

Cheers.

[patrickstefanski]

I'll chime in... because this thread rules.

Rusty/Phishlips....yeah, you guys have to agree to disagree.  i think practice is super important for anything. even if you are playing the same cover song over and over again, you'll always come up with things with other people....and to me nothing is better then a little extra note or lick that evolves into something crazy. this forum is about phish....listen to phish in 1990 listen to phish in 2010...how many now "standard" things evovled out of spontaneous on-stage moments?  Unless you have a touring schedule like phish, the only way you will have a chance to evolve together is to practice together.  However, i also agree with Rusty that each member of the band has to do their part on their own...no question.

I once again agree with Rusty in saying that no normal person has the time to devote 3-4 days a week to a band.  And that is where the "agree to disagree" part comes in.  Unless you are a band like Phish, who has no lives outside the band, no wives, no children (I'm talking about super early phish here), you have to make a compromise on how your band is set up.   It is in that compromise that you two are disagreeing IMO.  Phishlips, you think practicing together, even if it means teaching someone who didn't have a chance to get their part down on the fly, is the best method. Rusty you think learning the song is paramount.    BOTH ARE VALID POINTS!  

If you are askign me...i'm on the "practice as much as possible" side of things.  

And PON...i think it's you who needs to chill a little, dude.  this is a good thread. a guy had a problem with his band, and came on to a music forum, posted in the appropriate sub-forum and asked advice.  and then from that post, a pretty interesting debate began on something almost anyone in a band can relate to....how does that "suck all around"?   and not only that....YOU were the first person to respond to this thread.  if you don't like a thread, don't read/post in it. that's the beauty of open forum discussion.  

[Rusty the Scoob]

For the record:  This ->  meant that I was joking around, or at least intending it that way.   

And I do like to exaggerate a point in a good debate... what's the fun in pulling your punches on the internet?  Until somebody gets upset, of course.. then it's punch-pulling time.  No offense intended.

[picture_of_nectar]

Mabye you are right Patrick. I deleted my post. I just think it's lame that this has gone to name calling. I'll just stay out of it.