Wah AFTER O.D.

Happyorange27 · August 20, 2011, 04:10:30 PM

Since I'm starting over basically I have tried to rearrange pedals for the hell of it. I only have a couple anyway. One thing I've always had a cringe with is either of my wah pedals feeding into my TS Silver. It just saturates too much and it's kind of trashy sounding. I was going to look into adding a larger resistor to the wah output as to fix this but can't guarantee it would work. So I've been thinking about this for a while and I tried what I'm about to explain.

Since I actually have 2 wah pedals, I sandwiched the TS in between them. I had TS on and then went back and forth between leading and trailing wah pedals; only one wah on at a time. The trailing wah was way better and not ugly. Also it could receive either a cleaner or dirtier signal from whatever I was giving it with my guitar volume knob.

If anyone else wants to try it for fun go for it. "Sacrilegious, but just sounds better to me.

IamWILSON · August 20, 2011, 05:42:58 PM

I call nans! Oh wait, this isn't PT.

Yeah, I used to think it was better that way too. That was also with an older wah pedal that I've sold. Ever since I got my RMC 6, I've definitely liked the tone before my tubescreamer. Did you check your complete tonal range as far as volume knob on guitar, dynamics of picking, and various gain settings on the tubescreamer?

fulltone1989 · August 21, 2011, 11:35:10 AM

Quote from: Happyorange27 on August 20, 2011, 04:10:30 PM
Since I'm starting over basically I have tried to rearrange pedals for the hell of it. I only have a couple anyway. One thing I've always had a cringe with is either of my wah pedals feeding into my TS Silver. It just saturates too much and it's kind of trashy sounding. I was going to look into adding a larger resistor to the wah output as to fix this but can't guarantee it would work. So I've been thinking about this for a while and I tried what I'm about to explain.

Since I actually have 2 wah pedals, I sandwiched the TS in between them. I had TS on and then went back and forth between leading and trailing wah pedals; only one wah on at a time. The trailing wah was way better and not ugly. Also it could receive either a cleaner or dirtier signal from whatever I was giving it with my guitar volume knob.

If anyone else wants to try it for fun go for it. "Sacrilegious, but just sounds better to me.

This is my general rule of thumb for arranging pedals.

Pitch shifting -> Wah/Filters -> Modulation -> OD/Clean Boost -> Volume -> Delay -> Teh Loopz -> Amp

-Pitching shifting goes first for me for tracking my guitar signal the easiest.
Wah/Filters go after for me for tracking as well.
-Modulation third, well, for tracking too! I found that it sounded to garbled when a OD was feeding into my modulation. I like clean modulation, then getting dirty when I want it to be. Not vice versa, for me at least.
-OD and Volume stay towards the end because they play fairly well with everything before it, but afterwards it makes reading things difficult.
-Volume is next for being able to control my overall signal, the reason I put it before delay is so I can still get Delay trails when making volume swells, this is widely open to debate.
-Delay is "last" so it catches every, same with the looper.

I find myself getting into the post-rock/shoegazer kind of thing when I get bored after a long practice session, and this setup seems to work well with one another.

I apologize if this was way off topic, getting back to the Wah into OD question. I put my Wah first, and adding OD afterwards adds hair to the "wahhed" signal. I find that when I add wah to an already hairy signal things can get messy/muddy and the wah's full range is affected. I hope that helped!

Happyorange27 · August 21, 2011, 10:13:57 PM

Thanks guys. Yeah I still don't know what best. I just played in the band today. The wah was ok but not great (after OD). Rest of my rig was wailing. Just fun to go against the grain sometimes. It's the only way you learn what works and what doesn't. Life is a laboratory!

Happyorange27 · December 19, 2011, 11:41:59 AM

So I've been meaning to do the following: Increase the input resistor to my wah which brings down the wah volume. My stock resistor was 56K. I ran a loop sample in front of the wah and switched the wah on and off. I also monitored the dB through my rack compressor which has a nice dB meter. Anyway I set the volume so that when the wah is on bypass, I was getting 0 dB. But when I turned on the wah, I would get like +3db. I made sure to check all sweep positions. So this was why my OD gets all nasty when I use the wah before it.

I played with more resistance values and ended up with an 89K resistor. Now the volume measures the same both on and off. I like this. I'll need to play with it for a while to confirm there are no draw backs. If it's one thing that I can't stand is a nasty wah in front of to much distortion, at least in my rig. I like to still get some clarity.

Well I hope you found this interesting.

picture_of_nectar · December 19, 2011, 03:51:18 PM

Other guitar player in my band plays with his wah at the end of his chain. i have told him several times that it's not the best idea, but he insists it sounds better...oh well, what to do?

Walker done done · December 20, 2011, 02:45:56 PM

Quote from: picture_of_nectar on December 19, 2011, 03:51:18 PM
Other guitar player in my band plays with his wah at the end of his chain. i have told him several times that it's not the best idea, but he insists it sounds better...oh well, what to do?

Easy: get rid of the other guitar player!

IamWILSON · December 20, 2011, 04:25:07 PM

Quote from: Walker done done on December 20, 2011, 02:45:56 PM
Quote from: picture_of_nectar on December 19, 2011, 03:51:18 PM
Other guitar player in my band plays with his wah at the end of his chain. i have told him several times that it's not the best idea, but he insists it sounds better...oh well, what to do?

Easy: get rid of the other guitar player!

Haha! At least you can rest assured that your tone is better and your playing will stand out more.

picture_of_nectar · December 20, 2011, 06:42:42 PM

Quote from: Walker done done on December 20, 2011, 02:45:56 PM
Quote from: picture_of_nectar on December 19, 2011, 03:51:18 PM
Other guitar player in my band plays with his wah at the end of his chain. i have told him several times that it's not the best idea, but he insists it sounds better...oh well, what to do?

Easy: get rid of the other guitar player!

nah, need him to sing

Poster · December 31, 2011, 02:33:17 PM

ask him to control an automatic envelope filter with a really hot signal, its impossible. same philosophy imo

Happyorange27 · February 04, 2012, 05:54:01 PM

Oops I did it again. Put the wah after OD and before the compressor. I got some nice even volumes. I also got some very good sustain at certain positions. Maybe after I try this other screamer coming my way I'll change my mind.

Heady Jam Fan · February 04, 2012, 06:01:29 PM

Yea, I find the same thing with Wahs and thought about putting it later in my chain, but never got around to it. A few months ago I had a fulltone 70 for a day and had to run it pre-wah and the wah definitely imparts more influence on the tone when it is after dirt, sometimes too extreme.

Happyorange27 · February 04, 2012, 06:18:01 PM

Wouldn't it be funny if Trey had all off his pedal jacks swapped for input and output just to fuck with us?

Bob Bradshaw says wahs should go after dirt because you get richer harmonics.

fulltone1989 · February 04, 2012, 07:18:38 PM

Quote from: Happyorange27 on February 04, 2012, 06:18:01 PM
Wouldn't it be funny if Trey had all off his pedal jacks swapped for input and output just to fuck with us?

Bob Bradshaw says wahs should go after dirt because you get richer harmonics.

That does seem entirely possible and would be a pretty simple mod I would think....

webephishin · February 21, 2012, 08:43:39 PM

i play a vox v845 classic wah before my OD and i think it sounds pretty good. The only thing that bothers me with my wah, is that when I engage it, the high's get rediculously high and at times piercing to the ear. It definately adds volume as well. So either before or as i'm engaging my wah i turn down my volume knob on my guitar...does n e one else have this problem? I talked to a guy at the music store who knows his stuff and was saying that a lot of ppl got their crybabys modded so the low end of the sweep is lower and the high end of the sweep is also lower...they basically turn down the pitch of the range of the sweep....ha hopes that makes sense.