Just set up my gear in stereo.... troubleshooting help needed?!?!

[IamWILSON]

I've been wanting to do this for a while and finally really had the time to mess around with a stereo setup.  I want to use it for my gig on Thursday evening, but not sure if I should since I haven't quite gotten all the kinks out.  Here's my setup:

Malden guitar (Knockoff of a 24 fret PRS Hollowbody - SD Jazz in neck and SD '59 in bridge) --> Whammy II --> RMC 6 --> TS-9 ('82) --> TS-9 ('82) --> Keeley Compressor (2-knob) --> Fulltone SupaTrem --> T.C. Elec. Nova Repeater --> Ibanez Digiital Modulation Delay III (DML20) --> Boomerang+ --> H&K Rotosphere MKii --> stereo L & R come out of here and both go into stereo inputs on the Alesis Microverb -->R channel out to Egnater Rebel 20 head into a Mesa Boogie Road King 2x12 cabinet, and the L channel going to a Blues Jr. Humboldt.

So overall, I think it sounded pretty excellent, but here are some of the troubles I experienced:

1. At one point I noticed a radio signal being picked up. I turned off one of the tubescreamers and it went away and didn't come back when I re-engaged it.  But there was a point when I engaged another pedal later on that the radio signal came back.  I use a Voodoo Labs Pedal Power 2 and Pedal Power AC for all my effects as well, and have never experienced any of this before.

2. Balancing the 2 amps was awfully difficult!  I think I had it pretty good at first but I noticed the Egnater seemed to be quieter after a while and it was already turned all the way up.  When engaging the Rotosphere pedal it seemed to spike the Egnater to be as loud or louder than the Blues Jr.  Also, when I adjusted the input knob on the Microverb there was alot of hiss and fluctuation in volume coming out of the Egnater.  Maybe I just need another Microverb to see if it runs cleaner and better balanced.  It seems like at times depending on where I let the knob settle, the Egnater would get louder again, but would re-quiet down after I played more.

Those were my 2 main concerns.  Now to talk about the sound bubble.  WOW!!!  I feel like my sound was cleaner and more pure than it has ever been, when I wasn't having the above issues that is.  My sustain and feedback have been good in the past w/ one amp, but I never felt like I found the perfect settings to be able to coax it out of the guitar/amps when always needed.  The kind of thing where I could get the feedback or sustain I wanted about 75% of the time.  For the hour I played tunes and messed around with chops and adjusting settings on both amps, I don't think I ever had a problem keeping a single note going.  A good example is the sustain needed in different parts of The Squirming Coil.  I also found myself turning the gain up on my ts-9 that I use for more gain even higher to get the same OD sound I desired while just using one amp.  And if you've never used a H&K Rotosphere I really recommend checking it out.  Sounds ok in mono, but when used in stereo it really sounded incredible!

[Brian27]

Both amps need to be plugged into dif outlets. Also dont use outlets near tv or computers. This should help with the radio signal issue.
Its hard to balance sounds using 2 dif amps. Thats why i dont use 2 dif amps but 2 of the same amps.

[fulltone1989]

Why don't you try to send the microverbs signal into the rotosphere and see if that makes a difference? Sick rig btw!

[IamWILSON]

Both amps need to be plugged into dif outlets. Also dont use outlets near tv or computers. This should help with the radio signal issue.
Its hard to balance sounds using 2 dif amps. Thats why i dont use 2 dif amps but 2 of the same amps.

Yeah, they were plugged into different outlets, and there are no TVs or computers in the jam room, so none of that stuff.  The 2 different amps thing is something I was/am concerned about.  I considered ordering a 2nd Blues Jr Humboldt, as I really do like the amp, but because the Bjr is so trebley w/ the sparkle mod they've added, I thought balancing that with the Egnator (which I get a darker sound from) would make for a good balance, and it actually does at the times everything was running smoothly.  And I actually looked up the Bjr Humboldt, but PGS is out of stock of these.  Another thing I'm considering is an older used Bjr that I can put another Cannabis Rex or some other speaker into and change the tubes out, but then that still gets expensive.

[IamWILSON]

Why don't you try to send the microverbs signal into the rotosphere and see if that makes a difference? Sick rig btw!

I will try that, but not sure what that will solve.  If I can identify that the one channel of the microverb just doesn't work very well, maybe I can just send the signal out of the other channel to the Egnater, which doesn't have reverb, and bypass the the stereo channel of the microverb from the output of the Rotosphere into the Blues Jr, which I use a little of its reverb anyway?  Or just take the microverb out all together, and just have reverb coming from the one amp.  That might be the easiest fix.  Unfortunately too much to do today before I'll have a chance to experiment more. 

As for the sick rig, I've been building this up for years, but I've really pushed forward alot more in the last couple years.  Debt is not good, but i think it's worth it all in the search for great tone.  And since most the effects I've gotten were used, I can always sell them and get back what I paid if I'm in a pinch.  I also have an AO guitar on order, but the building process is yet to begin, although I know Andrew is getting close with finishing up some others.  Nice plank picked out and all!

[fulltone1989]

Why don't you try to send the microverbs signal into the rotosphere and see if that makes a difference? Sick rig btw!

I will try that, but not sure what that will solve.  If I can identify that the one channel of the microverb just doesn't work very well, maybe I can just send the signal out of the other channel to the Egnater, which doesn't have reverb, and bypass the the stereo channel of the microverb from the output of the Rotosphere into the Blues Jr, which I use a little of its reverb anyway?  Or just take the microverb out all together, and just have reverb coming from the one amp.  That might be the easiest fix.  Unfortunately too much to do today before I'll have a chance to experiment more. 

As for the sick rig, I've been building this up for years, but I've really pushed forward alot more in the last couple years.  Debt is not good, but i think it's worth it all in the search for great tone.  And since most the effects I've gotten were used, I can always sell them and get back what I paid if I'm in a pinch.  I also have an AO guitar on order, but the building process is yet to begin, although I know Andrew is getting close with finishing up some others.  Nice plank picked out and all!

Awesome! Buying used is the best route nowadays.

What if you used the Rotosphere to split the signal, and then used the Microverb in the efx loop of the Egnater?

[manicstarseed]

As for the RF...Have you checked the cables? Damaged shielding would do this. Going stereo demands more cables so have you compromised here just to get it done?

I have not seen this issue when I have done it, so its hard to say.

[manicstarseed]

Some other thoughts....

I do use a consumer -grade power strip/conditioner to plug my amps into.

The amps should be fine.. what there like a 20 W and a 15 W?  I think its an issue in the signal path.

[IamWILSON]

"What if you used the Rotosphere to split the signal, and then used the Microverb in the efx loop of the Egnater?"

That's a great idea.... Thanks Tom!

As far as my cables go, 80% of them are either Monster or Planet Waves solderless from those kits they have.  So maybe changing out the remaining ones can fix the problem.  I know I have 3 or 4 Fender 6" patch cables mixed in and one was feeding the 1st ts9 and another was in between both ts-9s so maybe that is it?  Especially because I think each of them gave me the RF at one time or another in that trial run.

And for outlets, one was plugged into a good power strip, while the other was plugged into a cheap powerstrip that was plugged into a separate outlet.

[fulltone1989]

"What if you used the Rotosphere to split the signal, and then used the Microverb in the efx loop of the Egnater?"

That's a great idea.... Thanks Tom!

As far as my cables go, 80% of them are either Monster or Planet Waves solderless from those kits they have.  So maybe changing out the remaining ones can fix the problem.  I know I have 3 or 4 Fender 6" patch cables mixed in and one was feeding the 1st ts9 and another was in between both ts-9s so maybe that is it?  Especially because I think each of them gave me the RF at one time or another in that trial run.

And for outlets, one was plugged into a good power strip, while the other was plugged into a cheap powerstrip that was plugged into a separate outlet.

Hehe no problem! Sometimes the solution is right under our noses.

I use a battery to power my RMC3 and sometimes I forget to plug the patch cord going to it all the way in and I wonder why I have no signal for a bit before I remember.

What's the bypass on the H&K? True or buffered?

[Happyorange27]

Wilson, you need to get the sparkle control from Bill M so you can tame some of that high end.  You will be glad you did.

Yeah try splitting the signal at your very first stereo pedal.  All of the remaining pedals should be stereo in and out as well.  If not, you are not taking advantage of those stereo effects. 

Rock on.

[IamWILSON]

Yeah I'm waiting till my speaker is fully broken in before I worry about doing mods, but I can definitely say, the de-sparkle mod is probably the first one I will consider.  There's a couple others I was interested in and might come to you Happy for some advice when I get close to ordering stuff.  I actually don't mind the tone I'm getting out of the BJr stock though, as it really sings, even at low volumes!  And the contrast of the the BJr and the Egnater is really cool actually.  So late last night I was searching for more info about stereo rigs and found this on TGP.

http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?t=707119

The first couple videos on here about ground loops and noise reduction and really informative and useful.  And the 2nd Bob Bradshaw video really makes me wonder if I need 1, if not 2 of these:

http://www.jimdunlop.com/product/mc401-boostline-driver   

Anyone here ever use this?

[Happyorange27]

Yeah I'm waiting till my speaker is fully broken in before I worry about doing mods, but I can definitely say, the de-sparkle mod is probably the first one I will consider.  There's a couple others I was interested in and might come to you Happy for some advice when I get close to ordering stuff.  I actually don't mind the tone I'm getting out of the BJr stock though, as it really sings, even at low volumes!  And the contrast of the the BJr and the Egnater is really cool actually.  So late last night I was searching for more info about stereo rigs and found this on TGP.

http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?t=707119

The first couple videos on here about ground loops and noise reduction and really informative and useful.  And the 2nd Bob Bradshaw video really makes me wonder if I need 1, if not 2 of these:

http://www.jimdunlop.com/product/mc401-boostline-driver   

Anyone here ever use this?

Wow those are great videos actually.  I just bought one of those ground fault testers on the spot!  Thanks,

[IamWILSON]

Yeah ground fault tester seems like a good cheap investment for protecting your gear and helping your tone.

I did some more playing around with my rig.  Took Tom's advice of putting the microverb in the Egnater's effects loop.  Also plugged everything into one good surge bar and it did eliminate the ground loop hum and the RF I was picking up. 

This all still left the problem of the Rotosphere's volume spike in one speaker channel when the effect was engaged.  Looked up the manual and after reading it sounds like it needs 2 inputs to run properly in stereo, so I ran a cable from the dry out of the DML20, skipped the Boomerang since it has only one input and output and ran that to the Rotosphere.  So now the volume was balanced easily, but I only get loops from the boomerang through one speaker.

Now this morning I ended up finding a pdf of the microverb manual and apparently it will allow 1 input to run 2 outputs in stereo, so the next thing I'm about to try is to take the Microverb out of the effects loop and just run it before the Rotosphere.  Then I can still have the loops coming out of both speakers. 

[Poster]

jesus h christ. all wrong. your amps are out of phase. happens all the time with 2 amps. radial makes the "switchbone" with a phase switch and a ground lift, try that, its what luther dickinson uses for all his stuff. they work well.