Trey's signal path/use of TS9's

[Heady Jam Fan]

I appreciate it Eric, no worries though, I am cool with Poster's strong opinions. The expressions (or whatever) made me laugh.

[Poster]

iam playing nice!

but yeah, the old tapes you can hear a very rough, rough variation on some of those sounds. but honestly, the majority of the improvements came from all that front of house gear, preamps, rack effects (they use many!).

[Heady Jam Fan]

I know, its daunting. I suspect there a lot of duplicates, like stuff for each of the guys, then stuff for the final master. I would suspect Fishman has a mic for each piece of the drum set, which takes a lot of FOS work itself. Who knows.

I still notice improvements with every change I make to my rig - I got some sonic feng shui now with my vintage TS9, Artinger and Mesa. It makes me smile, so it is worth it

[Poster]

I have been fortunate enough to have played some enormous venues, and honestly, everything sounds better. At the Ryman in Nashville (small theater) my shit played itself. Any vaudevillian theater has wonderful acoustics, hell the Orpheum in Memphis had a great sound when I was in there.

But again, when you get out into the larger festivals, and it was a whole other thing. It was all about how nice my monitors were. When I moved to in ears, I had to go back to block monitors when playing festies. Whenever Ive played a huge gymnasium, like at Castleton, Grn Mtn, or UVM, St Mikes in Vermont (i played them all many times) it would offer up its own specific set of nightmares.

at the fed ex forum with Drake, the largest indoor venue Ive ever worked, things sounded great, but the sound guy was very patient in making me happy, I have a feeling the front of house mix I was nearly lost (r&b / rap no really conducive to the tone bone) but hey I thought my shit sounded sweet.

when I started I did what you guys are doing, and over the years I learned just how dumb that was. nothing wrong with having some love in your heart, but you have to learn about your field if you want to play ball.

worse tones Ive ever culled out of an epic rig = budweiser flat bed at a bbq fest in july. and probably playing out back of the lake house on lake bomoseen vt. My shit was like hitting the wall of the building, then something to do with the lake maybe? whatever, it sucked a dick, everybody enjoyed the golden shower though/

[Heady Jam Fan]

Yea, I have played a few decent size venues when I had more time to play, not much in a few years. But two similar sizes; a hockey rink vs out outdoor festival, completely different experience. Definitely just the fact that you can open up a tube amp loud enough to play for that many people is beneficial to tone. I don't have the time (or probably chops ) to play out right now and I don't own any of that gear that is really helpful, like monitors, just sold my PA...

I also got the chance to play at some excellent places designed for acoustics, one hall that was designed similarly to Heinz Hall in Pittsburgh, that was mostly with a Jazz group though so not pumping out rock volumes. Certainly different than my bedroom where the windows and heating ducts rattle once I get my volume near 2 on the Mesa even on the lower watt setting.

[Poster]

see right there, you wont crank your amp at a huge show. they close mic that shit, and when you crank, you piss into all the vocal mics (hey eric baby we are gonna be rich one day). people do it, but it doesnt sound good. and by crank I mean maxing it out.

[Poster]

its part of the reason you like your compressor, its helping reach that tube saturation at lower volume. likely why red used one all this time. its all about manageability on the fly, and when your touring, you dont get asked back if your a hassle. It makes it really pretty easy on the sound dude.

[Heady Jam Fan]

For sure, I don't remember if I was running a comp back then, likely not (definitely not when I was playing jazz, that was into a solid state fender bass amp - not by my choice, but it was okay). Also, those that I mentioned did not have a FOH, so I really did need to turn way up, no mics, PA was only for vocals and keys. The first time I did play somewhere with a sound guy, he said no amps, just direct in, I had a pedal set for a huge boost and that pissed him off when I turned that on - thats not really my fault though, asking a guitarist who gets his tone from boosting a tube amp to go direct in 2 seconds before playing.

[Poster]

yup, sound guys are failed musicians man, they hate your soul. use a rider. do not play if they say no. use smaller tube combos (i hate combos), dont play in showcases (if your any good), etc. I typically wouldnt play if there was no free water, private shitter, some sort of security, venue insurance, etc. sounds ridiculous if you "just want to play", but yeah, you will get fucked with a bigfoots dick if you dont, because you know, musicians are alot like strippers, somebody always is younger with bigger tits, and most wont hesitate to suck

and most venues dont give a shit. so yeah, you gotta get a decent record / or promoter, get out on the road, and hit the same city a few times to get the lay of the land. ie I played austin like 5 times before we got it down.

its not a business for sensitive, whiny, cunty, pussies you know? that why most people you know play covers at hot wing night, it take a whole lot, and all levels to get it where you want it, and when you get there, youve got to whip it out and stick it.

[Heady Jam Fan]

Lol, true, which is why I decided not to be try to pursue a profession in music. Cuz I don't suck.

Where's the pic of this Koa BTW?

[Poster]

your rigs > looks like a hunk of koa to me

[fulltone1989]

I would be interested in his vibe placement as well. I tend to slightly prefer it before my overdrive. His is in his rack, but I don't know if that would help discern where it is in his chain. I never really looked into it.

There is a lot of debate as to which TS went first in Trey's rig - cleaner or dirtier. I personally can't get a great sound when they are stacked if the dirtied one is first, it sounds muffled and muddy, which I often find when stacking other pedals as well.

I don't know much about the FDII - IIRC it is based off the SD1, so TS-like with asymmetrical clipping and more bass? And the other side of it is just a boost? It would be my inclination to figure out how you want to set this pedal in relation to getting a jam tone before deciding on the others; if you want it lower-gain for clean and low-gain stuff, then I would put it earlier in the chain and you have 2 channels to 'goose' pedals after it. If you want it dirtier (a la Trey's dirty TS9), I would put it second, then I guess the boost would give you more clean volume (unless it is just hitting a compressor).

If the FDII is too midrangy for chords for you (I know some people prefer more tonally open dirt pedals for that), the Timmy might be a good option. I used to put my Timmy between my 2 TS Silvers; the louder cleaner one was as great boost going into it for a bluesy tone. So in relation to the FDII, deciding where you want to put it depends on how dirty you run the two pedals IMO. Note: I really like setting the Timmy with more midrange; turn the bass off (clockwise) and the treble almost off (3 o'clock), then increase the gain quite a bit (maybe all the way) and play with the toggle (I think I liked the asymmetrical or compressed setting). I found it to me smoother and more D-Style-like. Worth a try...

I never owned a Zen, but I had an Alpha Drive. I found it hard to play chords on since it was very thick, rich and midrangy. I modded  it for more treble and found I could increase the gain if I wanted without getting muddy. It might have some similar application to the Zen... Mostly I liked the Alpha for low-gain, midrangy melody or lead work.

My initial thought would be to put the Zen last, keep the FDII fairly clean and use that first in the chain. I would just find the sweet spot(s) on each pedal and try 2 at a time in different orders to see how they interact the best. This probably wasn't that helpful and maybe obvious, but its the best I've got

Thanks for the input, I ultimately want to get down to using 2 drive boxes - the FDII and either the Timmy or the Zenclone but keeping all three is working fine right now I guess. What I like most about the Zenclone is that it works for me with chording as well as leads, the tone and voice knobs work really well together for dialing it in for use with different amps, it CUTS through the band mix pretty well too IMHO.

The FDII's compcut mode is great for chords, I can compare it to the intro to "Meatstick" I guess. With the Timmy between the two it acts as an EQ in a way BC of the Bass and Treble knobs being so reactive, but to be honest it doesn't get stepped on a whole lot. If I can get the Timmy to sound like the FDII then I'd be a happy camper. The FDII's got that added boost function though which is nice to have I guess :/

[Heady Jam Fan]

So it sounds like you are leaning toward the FDII and the Zen, if the Timmy isn't cutting it for you, maybe try taking it off the board and see if you get the urge to put it back on - if not, then maybe you don't need it - no point in wishing it sounded like the FDII if you already have the FDII

Which one do you like more for clean chords? I would just pick that as the lower gain and use it first in the chain. They are both more compressed than the Timmy too I imagine, which is probably good for jam.

On the note of the FDII, I was thinking of trying a vintage SD1 - not sure if they are supposed to be any better than modern ones, but someone wanted to buy my Analogman Silver and I think we are going to line up a Silver, the Vintage, my SRB808 and the SD1 and do a little shoot out! We wanted to toss a Maxon OD9 in the mix too, but neither of us have one. The Asymmetrical clipping seems cool, but I don't need the extra gain of the SD1, I think it is a bit grittier and the TS is smoother and I also read on the Analogman site that the overdrive bleeds through even when the pedal is off (which I am sure Fulltone fixed on the FDII). So I will probably stick with a 2nd TS, but I figured it would be cool to try since a vintage SD1 only costs like $100.

[fulltone1989]

So it sounds like you are leaning toward the FDII and the Zen, if the Timmy isn't cutting it for you, maybe try taking it off the board and see if you get the urge to put it back on - if not, then maybe you don't need it - no point in wishing it sounded like the FDII if you already have the FDII

Which one do you like more for clean chords? I would just pick that as the lower gain and use it first in the chain. They are both more compressed than the Timmy too I imagine, which is probably good for jam.

On the note of the FDII, I was thinking of trying a vintage SD1 - not sure if they are supposed to be any better than modern ones, but someone wanted to buy my Analogman Silver and I think we are going to line up a Silver, the Vintage, my SRB808 and the SD1 and do a little shoot out! We wanted to toss a Maxon OD9 in the mix too, but neither of us have one. The Asymmetrical clipping seems cool, but I don't need the extra gain of the SD1, I think it is a bit grittier and the TS is smoother and I also read on the Analogman site that the overdrive bleeds through even when the pedal is off (which I am sure Fulltone fixed on the FDII). So I will probably stick with a 2nd TS, but I figured it would be cool to try since a vintage SD1 only costs like $100.

It's a sophies choice type deal I guess. As much as I like the Timmy I can't imagine having 3 OD's and a Comp on my board w/o looking like a TGP dweeb at shows. It works now so why fix it if it isn't broken. I guess I just want to see if there can be any common ground between two pedals to justify removing one from the board.  The issue for me is they all do very different things and out of all the setting I have tried, only one or two overlap to a point where I can be happy. I can somewhat replicate the Zenclone with the FDII on vintage mode a bit as all the Zendrive circuit is really is a tweaked Tube Screamer (Vintage mode is modeled after a TS I think, or at least it's got a mid humped EQ.) The Timmy and FM can sound similar, but BC of the FDII's boost it wins out anyways.

Shit. Might as well all three on. The Timmy is set as a fat boost/EQ anyways.

[fulltone1989]

How many pedals do you guys run in your chain? I had a PT-Pro this time last year, I'm down to 8 but want to keep downsizing.

Wah -> vibe -> tuner -> 3 dirts (grrrr) -> Ross clone -> repeater.