Trey's DR. Pics?

Heady Jam Fan · January 15, 2014, 06:59:10 PM

Is it a Y or one of those dual cables that are two separate cables electrically, but bound together simply by the insulation (plastic coating)?
If its a Y, somehow his DR's channels are in phase. Maybe having reverb on both channels would do that...

Down_With_Sco · January 15, 2014, 07:32:50 PM

The pictures I posted prove he no longer uses the Y cable on the Fender.... and he hardly uses the Fender now days anyways with his Bogners.

tsbot · January 15, 2014, 07:34:38 PM

I think it's a dual cable - just because of the fact the he has a footswitch labeled Fender Amp with Lead and Rhythm written on it.

tsbot · January 15, 2014, 07:36:35 PM

Down is right - I can't keep up with Trey and amps haha! But that is why I settled on the Deluxe Reverb (well Vintage 22) - it's perfect for home use and playing backyard gigs -

Hoody · January 16, 2014, 09:44:06 AM

I went back and watched a couple of clips from the IT DVD, and there Trey has the split/Y cable going into the first Deluxe, with no mic on it. The Bruno is mic'd, and there is no Languedoc cab.

He also has the second Deluxe on stage, and that one is mic'd. However, it looks like there is only 1 cable going into the second channel.

I think the long and short of it is that Trey actually switches around how he's using an amp pretty frequently. Just from this thread we've seen that at various times he's used a lot of different approaches. From mic'ing the Delxue itself, running it into the Bruno, using a Y cable, using just one cable, etc.

While we haven't yet received the goal of close up photos of his Deluxe settings, I'd think its fairly safe to assume they probably change slightly from time to time as well. I have a '67 blackface AB763 amp, and to me those settings are all really good. They all have that tone and changing them a bit here and there doesn't really get you away from it.

Still - i'd love to see close up photos of the DR, too. I'm curious what the extra knobs are and how he has all the settings.

Heady Jam Fan · January 16, 2014, 10:40:14 AM

Quote from: Hoody on January 16, 2014, 09:44:06 AM
I went back and watched a couple of clips from the IT DVD, and there Trey has the split/Y cable going into the first Deluxe, with no mic on it. The Bruno is mic'd, and there is no Languedoc cab.

He also has the second Deluxe on stage, and that one is mic'd. However, it looks like there is only 1 cable going into the second channel.

I think the long and short of it is that Trey actually switches around how he's using an amp pretty frequently. Just from this thread we've seen that at various times he's used a lot of different approaches. From mic'ing the Delxue itself, running it into the Bruno, using a Y cable, using just one cable, etc.

While we haven't yet received the goal of close up photos of his Deluxe settings, I'd think its fairly safe to assume they probably change slightly from time to time as well. I have a '67 blackface AB763 amp, and to me those settings are all really good. They all have that tone and changing them a bit here and there doesn't really get you away from it.

Still - i'd love to see close up photos of the DR, too. I'm curious what the extra knobs are and how he has all the settings.

Thanks Hoody - spot on!
- We (as of yet) don't have a pic of his settings
- He changes up his gear, but however many wires he has won't (likely) help us guess what mods are done
- A good Deluxe will cover those tones

I was originally hoping to see:
- His treble knob setting because I was trying a mod that decreases treble and I expected if he had it done, his knob would be set pretty high. I tried that mod and didn't like it - whether or not its done on his amp.
- His additional knob, assuming its a midrange knob, could help determine the specifics of the circuit (did he leave the 6.8K resistor?) and its value (10k, 15k, 25k, 50k).
- His Intensity and Speed knob settings. I've never heard him use the trem on the DR, but I didn't like the trem disconnect mod on my DR. Is it replaced, as BB suggests, with a midrange boost?? Is it just turned down and left in the amp's circuit? Are the pot repurposed for something else entirely?

But either way, this thread resulted in an interesting discussion. And Hoody said it: a good ole DR will get you most of the way there. I tried many mods and generally prefer the amp pretty much stock aside from a speaker change, pulling V1 (which I might try replacing), and fixing the clicking in the tremolo circuit. I might try a midrange pot eventually... More so than to replicate Trey, I think the idea is to learn from others to get the best tone possible!

As essentially a three knob amp (volume, treble and bass), I think its pretty easy to setup. The (pre)amp seems to need a certain amount of bass to come to life - on my amp, I can hear that happen (the noise floor jumps a bit) around 2.75, but my 3 on the dial, I have too much bass. I might as well measure the bass pot with a micrometer and use a fixed value (resistor)! Then I pretty much do treble to taste depending on the volume and venue.

express50express · January 16, 2014, 12:02:39 PM

For what it's worth, I own a DRRI. Yes, I know a DRRI is apples to oranges to a vintage deluxe.

IMO, the stock DRRI speaker is complete junk. No idea why Fender chooses to use this speaker. I swapped out with 25W Weber 12F150 speaker and JJ's. I may swap in a Weber Blue Dog or Celestion G12-65.

Here are the modes that were professional done on my DRRI.

1. Added a Mid Pot (installed in the back of amp. Only works on the Vibrato Channel. I believe this is a standard limitation off adding Mid Control. From my experience, the Mid adds just enough, but don't expect it to
be that significant. Probably something to do with the DRRI's EQ.
2. Added a Negative Feedback Control Knob on the back of the amp. The range of the knob can go from normal to loose. This Mod is my favorite.
3. Bright Cap was clipped.
4. The Vibrato is removed from Circuit.
5. Both Normal and Vibrato channels are connected to the Reverb

I am happy with the tones of this amp, and is a great base for Trey tones.

The mods i found i like the best are in this order...
1. Bright Cap
2. Speaker Swap
3. Negative Feedback Control
4. Having Reverb wired to both channels.

No Amp alone will give you Trey tones. Some will provide a better base to start from than others. I also have a Mark III, both Amps are worlds apart from each other, and neither one can really nail the tone. Which always reinforces the well known concept that tone is more in the fingers, versus in the gear.

Hoody · January 16, 2014, 12:38:29 PM

What is negative feedback control? I haven't heard of that mod and just curious.

I've actually played a lot of old blackface fenders and find that they really do get you pretty close, especially if you're using a ROSS, at least for the cleans.

I have a huge problem getting the OD tone right. I don't know if this should be another thread, but I have a huge volume jump w/ the TS-9's, especially if i use Trey's settings. And they also sound too dirty and garbled. I believe this is because Trey really does a TON of the dirt/volume work with his volume knobs. So a cranked TS-9 for him is not very loud, and it isn't that dirty.

I actually get a better Trey OD tone by overdriving my amp slightly and using just the Ross, as opposed to getting the OD from the TS9. But likely b/c i ain't Trey and haven't mastered adjusting my volume knob on the fly to get the right mix of volume/tone/dirt.

express50express · January 16, 2014, 01:02:26 PM

This is a nice link.
http://fenderguru.com/amps/deluxe-reverb

My NFB mod is controllable using a knob, so I can adjust how aggressive (or loose) I want the amp to get. Both the Mid and NFB knobs are in the back of the amp.

Heady Jam Fan · January 16, 2014, 01:25:56 PM

A negative feedback loop, at least in a guitar amp, is often in the power section I believe. It sends some signal back, out of phase, to cancel out or dampen part of the original signal. The part of the signal NFB dampens is certain (upper) harmonic content. Too much (harmonic content / distortion, or too little filtering of that distortion) is heard as bothersome distortion, too little (harmonic content, or too much filtering) makes the amp sound deadened. In some guitar amps, this is where the presence control takes place. IIRC, with too little nfb, there is also more noise.

Heady Jam Fan · January 16, 2014, 01:38:55 PM

Quote from: Hoody on January 16, 2014, 12:38:29 PM
What is negative feedback control? I haven't heard of that mod and just curious.

I've actually played a lot of old blackface fenders and find that they really do get you pretty close, especially if you're using a ROSS, at least for the cleans.

I have a huge problem getting the OD tone right. I don't know if this should be another thread, but I have a huge volume jump w/ the TS-9's, especially if i use Trey's settings. And they also sound too dirty and garbled. I believe this is because Trey really does a TON of the dirt/volume work with his volume knobs. So a cranked TS-9 for him is not very loud, and it isn't that dirty.

I actually get a better Trey OD tone by overdriving my amp slightly and using just the Ross, as opposed to getting the OD from the TS9. But likely b/c i ain't Trey and haven't mastered adjusting my volume knob on the fly to get the right mix of volume/tone/dirt.

Are you leaving your TS9 on for clean and using your volume knob to clean it up? Thats what I always do, but I find at lower volumes, my cleans lack the shimmer and liveliness I need, yet without the TS they lack the compression and midrange that Trey has (ie, with only the Ross on). So recently I've been using my MXR 6-Band EQ after my Ross as either a mild flat boost, buffer, or tone-shaper to give some shine to the cleans when playing at moderate volumes. When I crank up the amp a bit more, just using my volume knob is fine because the amp is compressed enough to keep my cleans sounding full and chimey.

As far as a clean or dirty amp, the Mesa MKIII is never going to be dirty on the clean channel with Trey's gear, but IIRC he did start dialing in his DR a bit dirtier at some point. I also think he uses the Bogner Shiva's dirt/lead channel dirtier (but there was another thread where people were saying his lead tone was too saturated this year and I think this is why). Sometimes I find my delay sounds shitty into an overdriven amp, but its been ok when my DR is breaking up a bit. But I also tend to setup with a cleaner signal - especially if I am at home and not trying to blow the roof off. I think just a bit of overdrive and compression is desirable when using the DR, but its not usually until I've got a drummer in the mix that it seems reasonable to turn up that loud!

Have you tried the 2nd input to see if your OD sounds better there? Sometimes I think the volume and treble padding of that input sounds better, other times I think it sound too dampened. Also, some people say Trey used a 12AT7, which I've tried a couple times as well as a 5751 and I always prefer a 12AX7.

Hoody · January 16, 2014, 04:14:47 PM

Very interesting Hady...no I don't use the TS-9 for my clean at all. Just a Ross and the amp. And I find that compresses and sounds great. I definitely don't like the TS-9 on for my clean.

I find that the TS-9's, at least in my set up, sound better w/ the levels turned down a bit. Trey has often mentioned that his Ross sort of counteracts the volume boost caused by the TS9. But i can't really seem to achieve that. I've also heard he likes the TS-9 volume at max b/c it sounds best, and I agree with that. My only problem doing that is the volume gets a good deal louder, even w/ the Ross chasing it.

fulltone1989 · January 16, 2014, 04:20:27 PM

Perhaps his volume pedal at the end of his chain keeps the overall level in check

Down_With_Sco · January 16, 2014, 04:25:55 PM

Quote from: tsbot on January 15, 2014, 07:36:35 PM
Down is right - I can't keep up with Trey and amps haha! But that is why I settled on the Deluxe Reverb (well Vintage 22) - it's perfect for home use and playing backyard gigs -

I think that's simply an old A/B box... He uses the same amp switcher whether he's using the Mesa and Fender, Mesa and Bogner, Mesa and Victoria.

Does anybody how Trey uses the channels on the Mesa for clean and dirt tones? Does he only use one channel?

Heady Jam Fan · January 16, 2014, 04:43:20 PM

Quote from: Hoody on January 16, 2014, 04:14:47 PM
Very interesting Hady...no I don't use the TS-9 for my clean at all. Just a Ross and the amp. And I find that compresses and sounds great. I definitely don't like the TS-9 on for my clean.

I find that the TS-9's, at least in my set up, sound better w/ the levels turned down a bit. Trey has often mentioned that his Ross sort of counteracts the volume boost caused by the TS9. But i can't really seem to achieve that. I've also heard he likes the TS-9 volume at max b/c it sounds best, and I agree with that. My only problem doing that is the volume gets a good deal louder, even w/ the Ross chasing it.

I used to struggle with that too - I still do sometimes, but I'm getting better.

I think part of maxing the volume on the TS is that is hits the comp harder, which is similar to turning up the sustain knob, thus when he turns his volume down for cleans, his compressor is keeping him louder (than if the TS9s volume isn't cranked).

Try messing around with this sometime when you can crank the amp up a bit more. I'll bet you get a better clean to dirty transition. Also maybe try a boost somewhere otherwise (before or after the comp).