Trey's DR. Pics?

[Heady Jam Fan]

Anyone have / know of any close pics of Trey's DR?

I'm getting great (Trey-like) tones on my SFDR, but messing around with a few mods and I think pics of his amp might help me figure some stuff out.

[fulltone1989]

Anyone have / know of any close pics of Trey's DR?

I'm getting great (Trey-like) tones on my SFDR, but messing around with a few mods and I think pics of his amp might help me figure some stuff out.

Gut shots? I haven't seen any.

[Heady Jam Fan]

Anyone have / know of any close pics of Trey's DR?

I'm getting great (Trey-like) tones on my SFDR, but messing around with a few mods and I think pics of his amp might help me figure some stuff out.

Gut shots? I haven't seen any.

No, I'd kiss you if you found that. And neither of us want that.

Just the front panel to see the knob settings.

[fulltone1989]

Anyone have / know of any close pics of Trey's DR?

I'm getting great (Trey-like) tones on my SFDR, but messing around with a few mods and I think pics of his amp might help me figure some stuff out.

Gut shots? I haven't seen any.

No, I'd kiss you if you found that. And neither of us want that.

Just the front panel to see the knob settings.

Haha don't tease me like that.

I know there are some photo albums of the island tour and as much as I hate PT, they have rare photos like that.

[Hoody]

I'd actually love to see these, too.  I have a Blackface Bandmaster, and it gets unbelievable Trey tones.  The settings on those amps don't really seem to alter the tone all that much (as compared to say a Boogie).  They pretty much sound golden at any setting.

I have a few other questions about the DR.

1.  Does Trey use the vibrato channel on his DR for lead?  And is his mid-hump only on the vibrato channel?  So that he's just using treble and bass on channel 1, and then he gets the more mid-rangy sound on lead stuff?

2.  what speaker is in his DR.  I've heard about 7 different things.  From Celestion V. 30, to Tone Tubby, to Celstion Blue Alnico, etc.

3.  did Trey ever run his DR out to his cab?

[Heady Jam Fan]

Anyone have / know of any close pics of Trey's DR?

I'm getting great (Trey-like) tones on my SFDR, but messing around with a few mods and I think pics of his amp might help me figure some stuff out.

Gut shots? I haven't seen any.

No, I'd kiss you if you found that. And neither of us want that.

Just the front panel to see the knob settings.

Haha don't tease me like that.

I know there are some photo albums of the island tour and as much as I hate PT, they have rare photos like that.

Haha.
I hate PT too man, but maybe I'll have to do some searching.

[Heady Jam Fan]

I'd actually love to see these, too.  I have a Blackface Bandmaster, and it gets unbelievable Trey tones.  The settings on those amps don't really seem to alter the tone all that much (as compared to say a Boogie).  They pretty much sound golden at any setting.

I have a few other questions about the DR.

1.  Does Trey use the vibrato channel on his DR for lead?  And is his mid-hump only on the vibrato channel?  So that he's just using treble and bass on channel 1, and then he gets the more mid-rangy sound on lead stuff?

2.  what speaker is in his DR.  I've heard about 7 different things.  From Celestion V. 30, to Tone Tubby, to Celstion Blue Alnico, etc.

3.  did Trey ever run his DR out to his cab?

1) I think your mostly correct here, but there are a lot of things to consider.
- Where I don't think your 100% correct (and I'm being literal/picky) is that I think he has a passive mid-control on both channels (or at least the normal channel). On both channels of his amp, you can see the 2nd input jack was replaced with a knob. This is likely a 10, 15 or 25k potentiometer that can fatten up, but not boost the mids IF PASSIVE. So he doesn't just have treble and bass on controls, but also mid.
- Brown said the trem circuit was replaced with a mid-boost circuit. The language Brown uses hear is interesting when taken literally. Its one thing to disconnect the trem and add a mid knob - two separate and unrelated mods as far as circuitry. Yet Brown seems to imply the trem circuit was changed to boost the mids - I have no idea how, but all I know is there is a tube in this circuit and I wonder if the mid boost is active, repurposing that tube. There are only a few effective ways I'm aware of to get a mid boost in a Fender amp - the stock tone-stack cannot accomplish a mid boost. One way is replacing the tone-stack with a modified James or Baxandall circuit, but you risk losing the Fender-voicing one that channel and this mod would not be replacing the tremolo circuit as implied by Brown's quote However, I think you could probably use the trem tube for an active eq / mid-boost - I have no idea how or what the circuit looks like, but I've always thought that might be the approach they took.
- There is clearly reverb on his amp's rhythm channel, but DR's don't have reverb on their normal channel, which we have been assuming is the channel Trey uses for rhythm. This likely means that Trey's amp is simply modded to have reverb on both channels - a simple mod requiring changing one lead IIRC, thus this is very likely the case. I think Trey also has reverb on his leads, but I don't think its as audible - however, I can imagine (or anticipate) someone arguing he doesn't have reverb on the lead channel - it makes sense to turn off reverb for leads because you'd cut through better and be more front & center / present. IF we hypothetically, just to cover all bases, assume he doesn't have reverb on the leads, then I think we'd have a lot more to consider about how his amp is modded: is the reverb switched to only the normal channel and the mid-boost replacing the trem is still on the 'trem' channel? Is the mid-boost that replaced the trem switched to only the normal channel and the 'trem' channel is now a reverb/rhythm channel? Or was the trem never changed to a mid-boost and a mid-boost is achieved some other way in the normal channel? Clearly its more parsimonious to assume the normal channel is a rhythm channel with reverb added to it and the trem channel is now a lead channel with reverb and some sort of mid-boost circuit.

2) I'm 99% certain Trey runs his DR through his Bruno cab loaded with Celestion Blue Alnico speakers. There is less certainty about what speaker is in his actual DR - its a blue frame and doesn't quite look like a Weber (Weber says that Trey owns at least one 50w Blue Dog), I think some people wondered if it was a Fender Blue Frame speaker, etc. Either way, thats not whats mic'ed when he uses the DR, but rather the Bruno cab. In a 412, a Blue would sound full enough. In a 112, I think it would sound thin and a Gold would be a better choice. For a cheaper, ceramic, alternative, I'm loving my CL80, which is the speaker in his Bogner Shiva. Trey uses V30's with his Mesa Boogie MKIII in his 2 212 cabinets.

3) Yes, Trey runs through his Bruno cab with the DR, his homemade 2 212's with his Mesa, but seems to usually just directly mic his Shiva.

[Hoody]

Heady - thanks for your very insightful response.  This is extremely helpful and useful.

And I think it underscores how little we know about that amp and how its set up.  Can we ask Brian Brown for some clarification and detail on what the mods were and how they work?  Anyone know how to do that?

You really got me wondering about how he set up the mid-boost and the reverb for Ch. 1.  I'm also curious about the speakers for the DR, b/c he didn't have that when he first switched to the DR.  And i've definitely seen photos of the DR mic'd directly.

Some photos would really help, too, so we can see how its dialed in and perhaps it will shed some light on what functions each channel has.

[Heady Jam Fan]

Heady - thanks for your very insightful response.  This is extremely helpful and useful.

And I think it underscores how little we know about that amp and how its set up.  Can we ask Brian Brown for some clarification and detail on what the mods were and how they work?  Anyone know how to do that?

You really got me wondering about how he set up the mid-boost and the reverb for Ch. 1.  I'm also curious about the speakers for the DR, b/c he didn't have that when he first switched to the DR.  And i've definitely seen photos of the DR mic'd directly.

Some photos would really help, too, so we can see how its dialed in and perhaps it will shed some light on what functions each channel has.

Its nearly impossible to say for sure. Its fun to try to figure this stuff out, but most important is I'm digging my tone - sounds like you are too. But in the end, I think that the core tone of the amp is still that of an old Fender. After Carruth got his hands on it, I'm sure its just about the best sounding DR out there, but any old DR in good shape will get a decent way to that sound I think.

I don't think we will ever know more about the mid boost circuit, but the most helpful to me was that there are pics of his MKIII's settings, which I have dialed in and found that the lead settings really tighten up the bass and smooth out drive - thick and midrang-focused while not diminishing treble because that kills the texture, liveliness, bite and ability to cut-through the mix. I find the Boss PQ4 and Ibanez PQ9 give me those qualities in a lead boost. If I can use that with my DR, its kinda almost easier and better than trying out some crazy mods!

As far as the DR mic'ed directly - I think there is a BB quote that says he had a Celestion Alnico Blue in the DR, but a shot of the back of the DR a couple years ago (which I was referring to in my post above) was a different blue colored speaker. Its possibly he had a Blue in there and put it in the Bruno at some point.?. Just a guess...

At this point the only mod I'm considering is a simple passive midrange mod. I had one on my last DR and I'm kicking myself for not remembering the circuit details. I think I'm going to use a 10k pot, leaving he 6.8k resistor between the 10k mid pot and the bass pot, which will set the minimum midrange level at the stock voicing of the amp and the max at 16.8k ohms, which should be a noticeable thickening of the tone. A pic of Trey's amp might help me tell what value pot he has, but I just went ahead and tried the other mod I think Trey has and I didn't like it, so I think my ears can tell me as much as a pic now.

[Down_With_Sco]

I was under the impression that Trey only uses one channel of the DR these days and it appears to be the 'vibrato' channel.

MSG 2010:


St. Louis 2012:

[Hoody]

If you look at this photo from Trey.com, it looks like he is only using the vibrato channel.  Nothing plugged into Ch. 1.  It also looks like the DR is not mic'd. 

The Mesa is also there, so perhaps he's just using that, but from this photo it looks like he's using the DR and running into his Languedoc cab.  Which would mean he's using the Vintage 30's with the DR.

http://trey.com/photos/trey-anastasio-band-312011/

I saw a couple other photos where you could tell there was an extra knob on both Ch. 1 and Ch. 2.  So the mid boost was likely added to both.  Not sure about whether reverb was added to ch. 1, or how that worked.  Maybe it was just reverb knob added to Ch. 1, and mid boost to Ch. 2.

[Heady Jam Fan]

I was under the impression that Trey only uses one channel of the DR these days and it appears to be the 'vibrato' channel.

MSG 2010:


St. Louis 2012:

If you look at this photo from Trey.com, it looks like he is only using the vibrato channel.  Nothing plugged into Ch. 1.  It also looks like the DR is not mic'd. 

The Mesa is also there, so perhaps he's just using that, but from this photo it looks like he's using the DR and running into his Languedoc cab.  Which would mean he's using the Vintage 30's with the DR.

http://trey.com/photos/trey-anastasio-band-312011/

I saw a couple other photos where you could tell there was an extra knob on both Ch. 1 and Ch. 2.  So the mid boost was likely added to both.  Not sure about whether reverb was added to ch. 1, or how that worked.  Maybe it was just reverb knob added to Ch. 1, and mid boost to Ch. 2.

Nice find.
I should say, I haven't been following the gear as much lately, so the fact he's using one channel is news to me.

I'm pretty sure the knob is just passive mid control replacing both the 2nd inputs. I don't think a second reverb control would be easy because there is only one reverb circuit (a second mid pot is easy because there are two tone stacks).

The DR sounds good with V30's too, lot of upper mids to my ear. He might just be using his volume pedal to go from rhythm to lead, but you said the Mesa was up there too - he often has an extra amp on stage as backup, but could hypothetically be using one for lead and one for rhythm.

[tsbot]

Here is a video grab from Brooklyn 2004 - you can see the 'Y' cable going into the Fender and he has the Bruno mic'd.

[tsbot]

I just got my Artinger last week and have been playing it thought this with the V30 and it gets as close as you can to 'The Tone' without being Trey IMHO!
I also just got a Loop-Master switcher last week too with A/B on the end and plug into both channels - pretty sweet!





DESCRIPTION
The Vintage Sound Vintage 22 is essentially an all hand-wired, all USA made, 60's era Fender Deluxe Reverb, but slightly modified with definite improvements.  At the root is, of course, the AB763 blackface circuit. 

What are these improvements?

1) One thing you'll notice is the addition of a "MIDDLE" tone control on Channel 2.  This, of course, was not on the original Deluxe Reverb.  So, why did Vintage Sound decide to add it in?  Well, first of all, it absolutely does nothing to hurt the integrity of the circuit or tone.  The original Fender circuit actually had a fixed "MIDDLE" that was set permanently at 6.8k.  Vintage Sound removed this resistor from the circuit and replaced it with a much more versatile 10k potentiometer.  The result is you now have the ability to adjust this frequency range without compromising the original tone.  If you want it to sound precisely like a 65 Deluxe Reverb, just turn the pot to around 6-7 and you're there.  You want to scoop the mids a touch, pull back.  Warn the tone a bit, turn up. 

2) Also included is a very nifty reverb dwell control which is on the rear of the chassis.  Obviously, this too was omitted on the original circuit, but it comes in quite handy for adjusting the amount of decay the reverb has.  Nice!

3) Another smart alteration is the incorporation of a Diaz based tremolo mod that Vintage Sound does.  This accomplishes a few things...  You'll notice the Vibrato has the ability to be slower than stock Fenders.  The vibrato being too fast was always a complaint people had with vintage Fender Deluxes (and still do to this day).  The other advantage this gives is when you turn the dial all the way down, you switch off the vibrato circuit, bypassing it and leaving you with a cleaner, more pure signal.  The result is a slightly more present tone, and a bit of a bump in volume.  Furthermore, with the older Deluxe Reverbs, you can hear a "ticking" sound with the vibrato.  This is caused by several design flaws in the original circuit allowing the LFO signal to leak into the audio path.  These issues have been addressed with better routing of the wires, superior components, and filtering of the oscillator output.

So, what do you end up with?

A truly amazing sounding Deluxe Reverb that's truly better than an original with nothing modified in a way that disrupts the original tone. 


Specifications:

Wattage:  22 watts
Preamp Tubes: 4 x 12AX7, 2 X 12AT7
Power Tubes:  2 x 6V6  (optional 2x6L6)
Rectifier: 1 x 5AR4
Front Controls:   Channel 1: Volume, Treble, Bass
                       Channel 2: Volume, Treble, Middle, Bass, Reverb, Speed, Intensity
Rear Controls: Dwell (Very cool custom feature for controlling the reverb decay time!)
Effects: Tube Driven Spring Reverb, Tube Vibrato
Speaker:  WGS Veteran 30 (A better version of the Celestion Vintage 30)
Inputs:  2 Inputs
Auxiliary Input: RCA Footswitch Jack
Extension Speaker Jack: External Speaker Jack
Circuit Construction:  All Point-to-Point, Hand-wired
Cabinet Construction: Dove-tail jointed solid pine w/Baltic Birch Plywood baffle and back panels
Pilot Light:  Blue Amp Jewel
Combo Dimensions:  17.5" High x 24.5" Wide x 9 1/2" Deep (50 lbs)

Optional Accessories: Two Button Footswitch, Padded Cover

[fulltone1989]

Since it's a Y cable, he must be blending the two channels? How do you think he's EQing them?

Are there any TAB photos from that era? Albeit he's EQing differently I would think.