Finally acquired a Mark III

Poster · July 29, 2014, 08:52:45 PM

absolutely heavy as shit though. have you gotten roadcases yet? if you end up looking they fit in a mesa lonestar 2x12 footprint. works well if you have other combo amps. my carr fits right in there too. as far as running all the speakers, you kinda have to ask yourself what the point would be, if you need a wider spread, or playing outside in a larger area facing downhill? there are some occasions where that could be neat, but otherwise you may be actually just needing to run 2-3 other amps with a switcher that can combine or isolate them

Down_With_Sco · July 29, 2014, 09:10:47 PM

It came with the leather slip, then I got a recto 2x12 slip for the 3/4 cab, which is slightly too big, but it has a little side pouch so whatever it's all good. Good to know on road cases if I need to go heavy duty.

Heady Jam Fan · July 29, 2014, 10:43:53 PM

Its not silly to do anything if it sounds good

I'd rock Class A with a 212!

Poster · July 30, 2014, 01:07:26 AM

well it is silly, because you trying to let the audience hear all the instrumentation. in some circumstances its good to run multiple cabs to achieve that depth. conversely, if your in a well tuned concert hall you dont need much more than a 1x12 or a 2x12 cabinet even if it is a bigger room. Amphitheater's are similar if they bowl up it could be good to do a wider phase field etc. then your really fighting the sound guy anyway. its kinda a mix between sound guy and monitor mix and your shit. but yeah, finding out how to run all your stuff without blowing up something is good too. One thing to think about, you could potentially unhook the internal speaker and just use an external cab. That way if your cab fails you have the internal speaker, which to me doesnt ever sound as good as an isolated speaker enclosure doing its thang. Thats basically how my rig works. I have a 2x12 combo amp with a 1x15 external. The amp runs the 1x15 alone. Shit goes down, swap one plug, and boom 2x12's yangin'. If I need to get hard titty then I just run all 3 in parallel (my amp has 2 speaker outs and adjustable impedance / power etc). But even without running them all at once its a decent idea to have them all there. Even the finest speaker will fail if you move it around enough. My jbl is a 1966' all original, no reason to think its going to fail tomorrow, but the fucking thing is older than me. Ive had mesa thiele cabs fail for no apparent reason. Again everything is usually roadcased and babied. Just something to think about. I dont mind hauling a little shit if I actually getting to swing the big stick

tsbot · July 30, 2014, 01:29:41 AM

Poster you got any sound clips or a web page? I'd be interested In hearing you play. Trying to expand my horizons! And I assume since we're both on this site there are some commonalities to begin with! Thanks man.

Heady Jam Fan · July 30, 2014, 07:59:18 AM

Quote from: Poster on July 30, 2014, 01:07:26 AM
well it is silly, because you trying to let the audience hear all the instrumentation. in some circumstances its good to run multiple cabs to achieve that depth. conversely, if your in a well tuned concert hall you dont need much more than a 1x12 or a 2x12 cabinet even if it is a bigger room. Amphitheater's are similar if they bowl up it could be good to do a wider phase field etc. then your really fighting the sound guy anyway. its kinda a mix between sound guy and monitor mix and your shit. but yeah, finding out how to run all your stuff without blowing up something is good too. One thing to think about, you could potentially unhook the internal speaker and just use an external cab. That way if your cab fails you have the internal speaker, which to me doesnt ever sound as good as an isolated speaker enclosure doing its thang. Thats basically how my rig works. I have a 2x12 combo amp with a 1x15 external. The amp runs the 1x15 alone. Shit goes down, swap one plug, and boom 2x12's yangin'. If I need to get hard titty then I just run all 3 in parallel (my amp has 2 speaker outs and adjustable impedance / power etc). But even without running them all at once its a decent idea to have them all there. Even the finest speaker will fail if you move it around enough. My jbl is a 1966' all original, no reason to think its going to fail tomorrow, but the fucking thing is older than me. Ive had mesa thiele cabs fail for no apparent reason. Again everything is usually roadcased and babied. Just something to think about. I dont mind hauling a little shit if I actually getting to swing the big stick

Its not silly, its just like anything else, depends on the circumstances.
I agree with some of what you said...
- I also usually disconnect the internal speaker when using an extension cab
- If a 112 will get by, great, such as:
- if you have a good sound guy: you don't want to fight him with a loud amp on stage
- yet, if you don't have a sound guy, point the 112 at you (as a monitor) and the 212 at the audience if you need to.
- but most of us are not playing a well-tuned concert hall, and maybe not even a gig that has a sound guy. If your playing an outdoor gig without a PA, bring anything that can help your get heard
- Multiple speakers usually balances the tone and results in a smoother sound, especially with well-paired speakers
- Yet multiple speakers risks making a really wide and confusing sound where its hard to 'locate' the guitar. I wouldn't put the 212 on the opposite side of the stage, but stacked like you have in your picture shouldn't make your sound too wide. You want to maintain some instrument separation.
- and most of all, whatever sounds good! If simulclass is too loud with a 3 12s, and a 112 sounds too boxy, class A might work perfectly and let you run the amp a bit hotter. Thats not silly at all. Trey kinda takes the same route using 4 12's in half-power mode, even though he has a great sound guy in an amphitheater.

Buffered · July 30, 2014, 09:30:25 AM

I agree with using the 1x12 as a monitor and the 2x12 for the main sound. I did that with my outdoor 4th of July gig and it sounded great. I play in a 3 piece, so it benefitted from more speakers. Alternatively If we set up the cream way (guitar->drums->bass in a line facing the audience) I'll put one cab on one side of the bass and the other between me and the drums - balances out IMHO and gives the bass a monitor too.

Poster · July 30, 2014, 11:23:05 AM

Quote from: Heady Jam Fan on July 30, 2014, 07:59:18 AM
Quote from: Poster on July 30, 2014, 01:07:26 AM
well it is silly, because you trying to let the audience hear all the instrumentation. in some circumstances its good to run multiple cabs to achieve that depth. conversely, if your in a well tuned concert hall you dont need much more than a 1x12 or a 2x12 cabinet even if it is a bigger room. Amphitheater's are similar if they bowl up it could be good to do a wider phase field etc. then your really fighting the sound guy anyway. its kinda a mix between sound guy and monitor mix and your shit. but yeah, finding out how to run all your stuff without blowing up something is good too. One thing to think about, you could potentially unhook the internal speaker and just use an external cab. That way if your cab fails you have the internal speaker, which to me doesnt ever sound as good as an isolated speaker enclosure doing its thang. Thats basically how my rig works. I have a 2x12 combo amp with a 1x15 external. The amp runs the 1x15 alone. Shit goes down, swap one plug, and boom 2x12's yangin'. If I need to get hard titty then I just run all 3 in parallel (my amp has 2 speaker outs and adjustable impedance / power etc). But even without running them all at once its a decent idea to have them all there. Even the finest speaker will fail if you move it around enough. My jbl is a 1966' all original, no reason to think its going to fail tomorrow, but the fucking thing is older than me. Ive had mesa thiele cabs fail for no apparent reason. Again everything is usually roadcased and babied. Just something to think about. I dont mind hauling a little shit if I actually getting to swing the big stick

Its not silly, its just like anything else, depends on the circumstances.
I agree with some of what you said...
- I also usually disconnect the internal speaker when using an extension cab
- If a 112 will get by, great, such as:
- if you have a good sound guy: you don't want to fight him with a loud amp on stage
- yet, if you don't have a sound guy, point the 112 at you (as a monitor) and the 212 at the audience if you need to.
- but most of us are not playing a well-tuned concert hall, and maybe not even a gig that has a sound guy. If your playing an outdoor gig without a PA, bring anything that can help your get heard
- Multiple speakers usually balances the tone and results in a smoother sound, especially with well-paired speakers
- Yet multiple speakers risks making a really wide and confusing sound where its hard to 'locate' the guitar. I wouldn't put the 212 on the opposite side of the stage, but stacked like you have in your picture shouldn't make your sound too wide. You want to maintain some instrument separation.
- and most of all, whatever sounds good! If simulclass is too loud with a 3 12s, and a 112 sounds too boxy, class A might work perfectly and let you run the amp a bit hotter. Thats not silly at all. Trey kinda takes the same route using 4 12's in half-power mode, even though he has a great sound guy in an amphitheater.

who gives a shit what Trey does? And why not haul around monitors if your playing venues without a front of house system. Shit at least a bar would book a band with some covers and a presser if your girlfriends would show up (and they would likely compensate you for having all that stuff and caring along with having a 200 dollar pa to avoid hauling a 700 cabinet). Your band needs monitors. Every band needs monitors. If you put the bass rig and the guitar cabs behind the drummer your missing the point. Your amp should be setup for the room your playing, then the pro audio side comes in to amplify it correctly. If your in a tiny room, you should not be using a fucking 2x12 cabinet? Tiny brick room = tiny combo amp etc. You can get some decent peavey monitors for maybe 40 bucks a piece. A power amp and mixer for 100 off the list. Because this shit is heavy. Bonus if you get a vocalist etc you now have some little pa speakers for practice. But hooking up 3 - 4 guitar cabs to play in a field because you guys dont want to run a PA is kinda stupid, and your also not going to get a smoother sound, your going to be louder, at the same time not getting the response out of each speaker. but what the fuck do i know?

If you think running multiple speakers smooths out the sound, and is not just under powering those speakers, you have got problems.

Poster · July 30, 2014, 11:37:54 AM

its a shame - but you guys will have to learn that you need MULTIPLE AMPS. Why isnt Trey using a shiva with the symphony? (used for reference) Why does kimock change his amp compliment for every show dependent on the size of the venue? What would the benefit be of having a 1x8 combo amp? These are the questions Id be asking myself. Having all this middle size tube amps are probably just a distraction. All that excess gear... Maybe less would be more if the intent was for progressing and people hearing what is happening. Learned it too late, too old and stubborn? Each time your taming that beast on 4 and turning on a distortion pedal your forgetting your not at a show, and you can just turn around and turn up the amp. Like in a studio you are master of your own domain - emulating is cool, but most of those cats are using effects pedal and big amps to nail studio sounds made with an engineer in a concert setting. Make the record experimenting with the I/O of the board - hearing basically how your big amps are worthless > make said record sound good enough to stand > build live effects rig to recreate said songs for project > have a couple amps that work for the venues your booking.

all this fuck man i just want a 200w hiwatt - trey got this new cab microphone bullshit is kinda getting old.

being able to nail a cover song can pay your bills. being able to play your own song and build unique tones for it, may save your soul.

Poster · July 30, 2014, 11:44:19 AM

so in summary - the mark III is a great amp, maybe you need a different speaker compliment internally. perhaps convert it to a head enclosure for better performance and portability. maybe use less shit - get a pa.

Heady Jam Fan · July 30, 2014, 11:56:59 AM

Again, I agree with most of what you said Poster.

The reason I referred to Trey is because every single member on SD is here because we think Trey's setup is a great example of a 412 in an amphitheater. He's clearly doing something right (definitely not wrong).

Monitors are great, so are multiple amps to fit the venue. I wish I could afford that. Fortunately most of the gigs I've been playing have monitors at the venue, including my show tonight. My Deluxe Reverb with a Badcat Unleash is a small, lightweight 112 that gets me the perfect tone from coffee shop to pretty large venue. You definitely don't need a setup with multiple speakers, but that doesn't means its bad or silly.

Multiple speakers, especially pairing two complimentary speakers does give a smoother tone if the speakers balance out peaks and valleys in the frequency response of the other speaker. This is the same reason why studios often use multiple mikes (or even multiple amps): it helps avoid harsh peaks in the frequency on recordings. Of having multiple speakers makes no difference if your only miking one of them for a gig.

Down_With_Sco · July 30, 2014, 12:43:00 PM

Good chat going on right here, thanks guys.

Poster · July 30, 2014, 01:00:08 PM

I would also say ALL of you guys need ATA grade cases if your gigging out at all. Search craigslist and ebay for used only cases. Get them a little oversized in the combo size but mesa depth, you can always use dense block of foam to fit it for whatever needs it that night. In other words you should be able to get a bad ass 900 dollar roadcase for 150-200 shipped that has locking wheels, top off, in bullet proof shape for nothing. If they are a little tall you could leave the bad cat on it.

lol i gave out 3 applause only to be smited for sharing - this place hasnt changed much

Heady Jam Fan · July 30, 2014, 01:23:03 PM

Quote from: Poster on July 30, 2014, 01:00:08 PM
I would also say ALL of you guys need ATA grade cases if your gigging out at all. Search craigslist and ebay for used only cases. Get them a little oversized in the combo size but mesa depth, you can always use dense block of foam to fit it for whatever needs it that night. In other words you should be able to get a bad ass 900 dollar roadcase for 150-200 shipped that has locking wheels, top off, in bullet proof shape for nothing. If they are a little tall you could leave the bad cat on it.

lol i gave out 3 applause only to be smited for sharing - this place hasnt changed much

I applaud you