Looking for a new amp

[Buffered]

To each his own I guess

[Hoody]

It's funny, I always found the reverb on my 66 to sound kind of bad if I turned it up over 2.5/3.  A little brittle and ice picky.  Do you guys not find that?

I think the non reverb is really good bang for the buck, and a lot of times I actually prefer ch 1 of my DR, and don't miss the reverb at all.  I feel like newer amps sound pretty bad without a good measure of reverb, but these old ones somehow don't, and can be better without.

[Heady Jam Fan]

To each his own I guess

Yep - I think thats the moral of the story: different strokes. We all have different ears. I personally like the Reverb version too.

It's funny, I always found the reverb on my 66 to sound kind of bad if I turned it up over 2.5/3.  A little brittle and ice picky.  Do you guys not find that?

I think the non reverb is really good bang for the buck, and a lot of times I actually prefer ch 1 of my DR, and don't miss the reverb at all.  I feel like newer amps sound pretty bad without a good measure of reverb, but these old ones somehow don't, and can be better without.

My first wonder is your reverb tube? What do you have in there, have you tried anything else? Or maybe the tank itself...

Around 3 is the sweet spot IMO - below 2.5 and the reverb kinda disappears all together. Above 3 and it gets overwhelming and 'surfy' real fast. Mine still sounds good around 4-5, but not for my style of music, just for a fun, swampy, ambient thing.

Also, is your amp overdriven? Once mine I start cranking my amp, the reverb gets a bit thicker and muddier - I have to turn it down or off in those situations, but it still doesn't get ice-picky.

You can always run the reverb back into the first channel of the amp for more tonal control, but ice-pick is not what I hear in my reverb, its pretty warm.

[Hoody]

Yeah i like it around 2.5/3, and agree that above that isn't very good.  I think it gets a little icy because my guitar is extremely trebely. 

Different topic but:

1  I saw the Fallon performance last night and it looked like Trey was only using his boogie.  And I thought it was his best tone of late.

I'm not very tech savvy, but anyone able to get good screen shots on his amp?  It's prominently pictured a lot so I'd think you could get really good stills and see if the settings have moved.

2.  You get some really good views of his black cabs, to me they really look like he just painted his old ones.  Anyone able to confirm?

3.  What effect is he using on the beginning of Fuego?

He sounds great here, love the tone

[Buffered]

Yeah i like it around 2.5/3, and agree that above that isn't very good.  I think it gets a little icy because my guitar is extremely trebely. 

Different topic but:

1  I saw the Fallon performance last night and it looked like Trey was only using his boogie.  And I thought it was his best tone of late.

I'm not very tech savvy, but anyone able to get good screen shots on his amp?  It's prominently pictured a lot so I'd think you could get really good stills and see if the settings have moved.

2.  You get some really good views of his black cabs, to me they really look like he just painted his old ones.  Anyone able to confirm?

3.  What effect is he using on the beginning of Fuego?

He sounds great here, love the tone

His tone is great, I didn't see any lights on the boogie though. Any of you guys at Randall notice if it was MB or Shiva? I'm also really interested in the cabs, but I always thought his homebrews were more "angled" Maybe they're a HT model? They very well could just be painted also.

Mike's hair, haha.

I watched it here:

http://consequenceofsound.net/2014/07/watch-phish-deliver-epic-performance-on-fallon/

[Hoody]

I didn't see a light on the mk iii either, but all the switches were in the upright, on, position.  It was also plugge in and usually is not recently, and there was no other amp around.

If all the switches are up that means he was using full power, which would be totally odd given he usually only uses the EL 34 tubs (1/2 power switch down), and because they were in a small studios not a huge arena.

So that makes me wonder whether he used his ordinary settings or not.

I think they have to be his old cabs painted black.  The speakers looked slightly recessed, although hard to tell.

If anyone is going to figure this all out it will be the folks on this forum

[Heady Jam Fan]

I haven't looked at the cabs closely, but the couple pics I saw looked like it was jut a paint job.

Thats cool if he went back to his Boogie. I haven't been using mine much lately - its at my old apartment that I'm slowly moving out of and too heavy to drag to gigs and practices, lol.

Does Trey have EL34's in his Mesa? The pics I've seen of the back of the amp look like he has 4 6L6's. He either does not have a simulclass amp, but rather a 100w 4 6L6 model, or he has/had 6L6's installed where the EL34's go. Usually the "half-power" mode is only on non-simulclass amps, but Trey has a long-head and some of them were mislabeled as "half-power" rather than "class-a" like the short-head simulclass amps.

[Hoody]

Not sure i entirely follow, which is embarrassing b/c i've had a mark iii long head.  The long head that I had used EL34's in the outer sockets, and was a simulclass.  It also had the 1/2 power switch on the front.

I think Trey's is the same.  It has the 1/2 power switch (sometimes labeled 1/2 power, sometimes labeled 100w/60w -- neither of which is correct, its not 100 watts/60 watts or 1/2 power). 

Are you saying the simulclass did not have that function?  Because if that's correct, then Trey's must be simulclass b/c his does have that switch.

Or did i totally misunderstand?

[Heady Jam Fan]

Not sure i entirely follow, which is embarrassing b/c i've had a mark iii long head.  The long head that I had used EL34's in the outer sockets, and was a simulclass.  It also had the 1/2 power switch on the front.

I think Trey's is the same.  It has the 1/2 power switch (sometimes labeled 1/2 power, sometimes labeled 100w/60w -- neither of which is correct, its not 100 watts/60 watts or 1/2 power). 

Are you saying the simulclass did not have that function?  Because if that's correct, then Trey's must be simulclass b/c his does have that switch.

Or did i totally misunderstand?

There are two version of the Mark III: Simulclass & Non-Simulclass:

- The Simulclass amps had 2 EL34's and 2 6L6's.
- The Non-Simulclass had 4 6L6's.

Both versions - Simulclass & Non-Simulclass - had a lower-power setting:

- The Simulclass had a "Class A" setting (even though it wasn't truly functioning as a Class A amplifier).
- The Non-Simulclass had a "1/2 Power" setting.

- "Class A" on the Simulclass amps run only the 2 El34's at approx. 15-25w (Mesa has published different output ratings and IIRC the later MKIII's such as the green stripe, ran the EL34's differently for more output).
- "1/2 Power" on the Non-Simulclass amps were literally half the power, only using 2 of the 4 6L6's. This is the same as the 100w/60w.

This gets confusing though:
- Originally Mesa published that the EL34's in the Simulclass amps could be replaced with 6L6's.
- Many of the long-head simulclass amps were mislabeled with non-simulclass labels that state "1/2 power" or "60w" rather than "Class A" like their short-head counter parts (I think this is because the long-heads were less common, so they just use non-simulclass faceplates rather than getting a small batch of simulclass faceplates produced).

So without looking inside the amp, its impossible to tell - as far as I know - whether Trey's amp is:
- Simulclass with a mislabeled faceplate and 6L6's in place of the EL34's.
- Or Non-Simulclass.

PS - its confusing and took me a long time to figure out.

[Hoody]

Extremely helpful!!!  Thansk for taking the time to explain that to all of us.

Pretty interesting difference in the power, a Simulclass switch down is only 15-25, whereas a non-simulclass is 60. 

Trey had always had his in the down position, so either 15-25 watts, or 60 (if nonsimulclass).  Pretty sure mine said Full/Half power, and its simulclass, so that means it just had the wrong face plate.

You said Mesa previously said you could put in 4 6L6's.  Do they no longer sanction that move?

And when you set it to Trey's settings, were you able to get a good Trey like tone? 

[Heady Jam Fan]

Extremely helpful!!!  Thansk for taking the time to explain that to all of us.

Pretty interesting difference in the power, a Simulclass switch down is only 15-25, whereas a non-simulclass is 60. 

Trey had always had his in the down position, so either 15-25 watts, or 60 (if nonsimulclass).  Pretty sure mine said Full/Half power, and its simulclass, so that means it just had the wrong face plate.

You said Mesa previously said you could put in 4 6L6's.  Do they no longer sanction that move?

And when you set it to Trey's settings, were you able to get a good Trey like tone? 

For sure!

- Mesa retracted the statement that EL34's could be replaced with 6L6's in Simulclass amps. IIRC, the 6L6's failed sooner.
- Re Power Difference: Since Trey uses 6L6's in his amp, even if it is simulclass, it would be more than the 25w you get with EL34's in the lower wattage mode. Also, 25w vs 60w is not a huge difference - the 6L6's has more bass and a bit more treble, a bit of a boost in perceived volume, a bit less 'squishy.'
- Mesa also does not sanction this, but you can completely pull out the EL34's and just use the 6L6's in the full-power setting. The 6L6's would run a bit hotter and, IIRC, the amp expects a different impedance speaker load. I ran my amp like this for a bit, but it would still differ from the lower-wattage setting for Trey's amp whether his is simulclass or non-simulclass.
- In which ever of these settings, I can get pretty close to Trey's tone with his Mesa. IMO speaker and cab selection will make a bigger difference than these aspects of the power amp. I think you really hear the output transformer in the Mark III more than the tube setting: its just a big chunk of iron that allows a tone of extended bass to pass through to the speakers. In a 112, the EVM makes the amp sound bigger and fuller, but in a 412, I think the tighter bass of a Celestion (with a 50 rather than 80oz magnet), might be ideal.

[Down_With_Sco]

My speculation from the Fallon Show.

- I think Trey's Red stripe is non simul-class but that's just my opinion and critical thinking. BUT since he was using a head at full power last night perhaps he was using a simul-class head? I think it was the only amp he used during the Fallon taping as well.
- I now think those are the same Languedoc cabinets.
- NOT positive but I thought I saw the Japanese uni-vibe sitting on the floor on Trey's right hand side.

[Hoody]

I love that idea of running full power but only w/ 2 6L6's in a simulclass.  Clever idea. 

Why do you guys think he has a non-simulclass?  The simulclass are generally more desirable, and i actually thought when i ran EL 34's it sounded more like his tone than the 6L6's.  So I almost thought that he may use EL34's, at least for a period.  guess i'm wrong, was just my guess.

He definitely has at least 2 mark III's.  Maybe one is simulclass and one's not.  Hate to specculate, b/c that's really all i'm doing.

Just goes to show no matter how much you try to cop his tone you'll never really get it.  So many variables you don't know, although i think what we do know is an awesome starting point and can direct you towards some awesome sounds.

[Down_With_Sco]

The two biggest parts of Trey's sound is obviously the Languedoc components. Hollow guitar and open-back cabinets. The Ts9's and Ross really just help sustain and add a bit of drive (Divided Sky, YEM) The amp is almost the least important part of Trey's tone imho.

I've managed to get a Trey tone out of the clean channel from my MG50.... and endless sustain too. I amazed myself that day.

I think Trey's amp is non simul-class because he strictly uses 6L6 tubes and uses the half power very frequently. (6V6 for his Fender and Orchestra combos) I could just as easily be wrong though. So there is that too.

[Deadicated Phan]

Well I pulled the trigger on a 1965 Deluxe Amp, honestly couldn't be happier with it. It sounds awesome, better than my twin. I honestly haven't found anything I don't like about it. It breaks up really nicely around 5 or 6. All in all the perfect amp!