Mesa Boogie Setting's Meta-study

[Jkendrick]

Question for you folks who are obviously much more knowledgeable than me.  How's a mid pot different from using an EQ to boost mids?

[Buffered]

I read somewhere the list off all the mods he had done, and it was endless.

I think the most important mod can make on a DR to achieve Trey's tone or improve whatever else your after is to swap the speaker, remove  the bright clip, and add a mid pot control to the reverb circuit. I wish I never sold my DRRI!!!!!

I now switch between a Mark III and a 68 Bandmaster. Trying to get a combo build for the head.

For the Bandmaster or Mark? I thought the Bandmasters were the same chassis as a Super or a Pro Reverb, but could be mistaken. Anyways the DR circuit in my Carr has a mid knob and it's by far my favorite. I've tried a few DRRI's and the Headstrong offering, so my playing experience is a bit limited.

[Heady Jam Fan]

My question is, when the F does Trey use the lead channel on his Mesa. I know the footswitch is connected, but has anyone seen the footswitch in his floor rig? I haven't. I only see him playing with his TS9's for overdrive and boosts. From what I hear, he has the lower drive TS9's on almost all the time, and plays with guitar volume and switches. Anyways, I'd love to see any picture of a footswitch or something labeled "lead or boost" in his rig.
I'm guessing he only channel switches when he wants to get crazy wild.

Mesa REV, R2, & GEQ footswitches on the far left, right here, and the Lead CH is in front of the Boomerang:
V

Trey does have custom footswitches for his Mesa... they are all black and to the right of his Tremolo expression control. So it's possible he uses the EQ by footswitch as Hoody stated, he has his EQ switch up in the 'Auto' setting. Trey definitely only uses the clean channel from the Mesa/Boogie these days..

these guys waay over here:

vvvvvvvvv

[express50express]

Thanks for pointing that. Wow, I really didn't even think he used that lead channel until now. How often do you think he actually stomps on the channel switcher? I'm sure one is for EQ, one is for Lead, and the other is Reverb. Do you think he ever touches channel 2?

Maybe he is on channel 2 all the time and we don't even know it

[Heady Jam Fan]

Question for you folks who are obviously much more knowledgeable than me.  How's a mid pot different from using an EQ to boost mids?

There are several differences to consider.

First, the impact on the signal would happen at a different place in the circuit. An EQ pedal would typically go before the amp while the midrange control in a Fender comes after a bit of other circuitry. I use my EQ pedal in the FX of my Badcat Unleash, so it actually goes between the amp and the speaker.

Second, the EQ pedal has more additionally circuitry than a simple midrange control in a Fender circuit. The added circuitry of one pedal has little noticeable effect on tone, but if you add that on top of several other pedals, eventually you will hear a difference between your guitar plugged straight into the amp.

Third, the typical midrange control on a Fender amp doesn't actually add mids so much as it effects how strong the other tone controls impact your tone. The Deluxe Reverb has a resistor instead of a potentiometer. This resistor is 6.8K. IIRC, Fender amps with a midrange control use a 10K potentiometer. So a DR has a fixed midrange about 70% of the way up; a Twin can be more scooped or slightly more full in the midrange. Higher than 10K resistance really starts to diminish the effect that the treble and bass knobs have; it essentially takes the tone controls out of the circuit. At around 25+K, its becomes a "raw" control where the treble and bass knobs really have not effect, the amp will sound grittier and more (well...) raw. Some people describe this as a Tweed-like sound. But it will never have the midrange punch of a Mesa with this type of passive midrange control.

However, whether this is true or not, there are implications that Trey's DR was modded for some sort of active midrange control. The Tremolo circuit was removed from his amp; a simple mod that gives more gain. Yet some information implies that one of his amp tech's used that gain as a midrange boost (rather than just a boost in volume/distortion). I have no idea, it might even involve using the extra tube that was for the tremolo? If it is true that there is an active mid boost, the actual specs of this mod probably won't ever be on the internet IMO.

So here is the tricky part. If there is an actual mid boost (and not just a passive midrange control), the closest way to match the tone would a Graphic EQ pedal (like my Ibanez GE9). However, there is a catch. For the Fender Deluxe Reverb to have enough bite and cut through when your sound is dirty, the volume has to be set at the sweet spot where there is just a touch of overdrive from the tubes as well; the "edge of breakup." The problem is that if you want a clean lead, like the lead in the song Dirt, the amp will be too distorted as soon as turn on a lead/midrange boost EQ in front of the amp (it will push the tubes to overdrive more than the "edge of breakup" you already dialed in). I avoid this problem because my lead boost EQ is in my Badcat Unleash's FX Loop (after the amp, before the speaker). Even in the studio, I had to change the setting on my amp between dirty and clean tracks; if I set my amp too clean on dirty rhythm tracks, it wouldn't cut through in the mix and would sound dull, but if I didn't turn down the volume for clean tracks, my amp would be too gritty. Its just such a fine sweet spot; you need a slight overdrive from the amp to have enough upper-treble to cut through, while the Mesa cuts through even completely clean.

[Heady Jam Fan]

Thanks for pointing that. Wow, I really didn't even think he used that lead channel until now. How often do you think he actually stomps on the channel switcher? I'm sure one is for EQ, one is for Lead, and the other is Reverb. Do you think he ever touches channel 2?

Maybe he is on channel 2 all the time and we don't even know it

Lol, I kinda doubt he uses Rhythm 2, BUT, if he does...

I'll bet he uses it for a touch more dirt on heavy leads (and thats only if he uses R2). For example, maybe setting the lead channel just below the point where there is some overdrive, so he can get those completely clean leads he sometimes uses, then, when he wants an aggressive/rock/dirty lead, popping on rhythm 2 (along with the lead channel) for a touch of extra distortion.

[Heady Jam Fan]

My question is, when the F does Trey use the lead channel on his Mesa. I know the footswitch is connected, but has anyone seen the footswitch in his floor rig? I haven't. I only see him playing with his TS9's for overdrive and boosts. From what I hear, he has the lower drive TS9's on almost all the time, and plays with guitar volume and switches. Anyways, I'd love to see any picture of a footswitch or something labeled "lead or boost" in his rig.
I'm guessing he only channel switches when he wants to get crazy wild.

As far as his dirt pedals, I'm sure you've seen his little tap-dance thing when he goes from the lower-gain TS to the higher-gain TS? Watch a couple videos of some live tunes and you'll seem him stomp one TS then the next really quickly. I think he has the lower gain TS on 70% of the time, the higher gain TS on 25% of the time and both on about 5% (or less). I know some people think he turns the TS off for cleans - I'm sure he sometimes does - but I get my tell-tale Trey-tone when I keep the TS on. I actually have 3 Tubescreamers on my pedalboard right now to get a better, cleaner clean. I modified a TS5 to be completely clean with more output; it sounds better than using my guitar's volume knob for cleans.

[Heady Jam Fan]

NYE Miami 2009:




- Looks like the tubes are all the same to me. Big old 6L6's.
- Hard to see if anything is plugged into the Rhythm 2 or Reverb/EQ footswich jacks
- Nothing plugged into the FX Loop.
- His amp does have a reverb pan.

Here is from the front side:



You can see the Lead footswitch is plugged in.

[Down_With_Sco]

Those 3 black pedals must be for the R2 channel, EQ, and Reverb and this is why, Trey uses a Boss footswitch for the Mesa lead channel.


And if anyone's interested I think this is also from TAB 2012:

[Buffered]

Excited to try those settings on my Carr

[tsbot]

Any guess as to the volume on the DR?

[Down_With_Sco]

I'd guess that number must be 5 or 6 based on what I can see.

[Heady Jam Fan]

Nice work Sco!

Those settings would be pretty dark on my DR, but any two vintage DR's can be pretty different. I'm surprised how high the bass is set.

If the input volume is 5 or 6, there would be quite a bit of overdrive. I keep mine between 3 and 4, and I use a 12AY7 (40% as much gain as a 12AX7 and 60% as much gain as a 12AT7).

Also surprised he has the reverb at 0.

[Down_With_Sco]

Thanks, I forget where I found those amp pics but I know they're legitimate.

I suppose that Volume could also be set at 3.

[Buffered]

Also surprised he has the reverb at 0.

I was surprised too, but does he still use the rack reverbs?