Mike's Signal Path

Brian27 · January 09, 2009, 05:55:34 PM

Fender amps are known for their clean tone and that is something i love about trey's Fender amps but the overdrive doesnt sound as punchy or as blistering as it did back in the day. i also dont like Combo's used with 4x12 speaker cabs. A perfect set up with a 4x12 is with an Amp Head. A pre-amp or amp head with custom built 2x12 speaker cabs is what Trey used to give me those chills

cactuskeeb · January 09, 2009, 06:43:26 PM

I agree with you on all that, especially the blistering aspect of the mesa rig--case in point: the trademark, opening chug of a '93 chalkdust is more satisfying than the same riffs played from '97 on. But the virtue of the fender is, finally, an expansion of the tonal possibilities, because it's a "warmer"--one hesitates to use that word, for obvious reasons--or, better, unpredictable quality that the Fender amp creates a place for, where I would argue, there couldn't have been before, when trey used infinitely more sophisticated equipment than what he would use later.

Check out the best example, I think, of what I'm talking about: if it means biting the financial bullet and getting the .flac files for 12_30_97 (best PYITE ever...not IMO but fact) then do it. There's no mini 4x12 here, just (arguably) stock fender speaker, single and internally mounted inside its 30 year old "deluxe reverb" cab.

Brian27 · January 09, 2009, 09:47:14 PM

No 2x12 cabs on sides of Rack?

cactuskeeb · January 10, 2009, 10:52:01 AM

They were always on stage and the old gear was always turned on but--and I've spoken to paul languedoc directly on this--the only amp/speaker combination you hear from 10/97 until beginning of post-hiatus is the deluxe reverb on the floor, tilted back against the effects rack.

Brian27 · January 10, 2009, 02:18:09 PM

Thats awesome.

Walker done done · January 12, 2009, 10:29:56 AM

Quote from: cactuskeeb on January 10, 2009, 10:52:01 AM
They were always on stage and the old gear was always turned on but--and I've spoken to paul languedoc directly on this--the only amp/speaker combination you hear from 10/97 until beginning of post-hiatus is the deluxe reverb on the floor, tilted back against the effects rack.

Maybe I'm mis-reading this, but all this talk has gotten me a lil' confused....what about the Bruno cab? Are you saying that's not even being used? Why then is it mic'd? Surely I'm just missing something here but if you clean it up for me, much obliged.

Brian27 · January 13, 2009, 11:10:26 AM

Trey started using the Bruno cab round 2000 im guessing. We were discussing the 12-30-97 PYITE where Trey was using nothing but the Fender amp sound rather then the CAE 3 channel Pre-Amp with his 2x12 custom cabs. Heres a new discussion maybe. At Bonnaroo 2002 Trey used his mini leslie 900 and he used a speaker cab for it. He also used that Leslie 900 from im guessing 95-99 with phish. Could his leslie sound be coming out of his 2nd fender or the custom built 2x12 cabs?

cactuskeeb · January 13, 2009, 09:05:25 PM

Quote from: Brian27 on January 13, 2009, 11:10:26 AM
Trey started using the Bruno cab round 2000 im guessing. We were discussing the 12-30-97 PYITE where Trey was using nothing but the Fender amp sound rather then the CAE 3 channel Pre-Amp with his 2x12 custom cabs.

Yes, that's correct.

Quote from: Brian27 on January 13, 2009, 11:10:26 AM
Heres a new discussion maybe. At Bonnaroo 2002 Trey used his mini leslie 900 and he used a speaker cab for it. He also used that Leslie 900 from im guessing 95-99 with phish. Could his leslie sound be coming out of his 2nd fender or the custom built 2x12 cabs?

The mini Leslie has its own speaker(s), which is primarily an upper rotor horn. I believe that when it was turned on, it was blended with the Fender sound, so that the sound had enough bottom, which it would have lacked had the leslie been used by itself. In terms of how the sound was captured, there were two Sennheiser mics behind the unit that captured the spinning horns' sound. Here's a picture of the device as it was originally sold, that is, with a bottom, stationary unit as well:

Brian27 · January 13, 2009, 09:32:06 PM

Out of all the Guitar rigs i have studied, Trey's has always been my fav. From the use of Mesa Boogie heads to the return of the Compressor

cactuskeeb · January 13, 2009, 10:08:52 PM

same

iceman91 · January 07, 2010, 03:41:46 PM

Does anyone know what kind of EQ mike had for his tone around 97-98?

Passion Presents · January 07, 2010, 08:12:28 PM

The noise in Treys 65 deluxe was the by product of the the tubes being run ultra, ultra hot. By hot I mean high plate voltage on the 6v6s, as well as the preamp gain structure. Combined they give an extremely high.....and by most accounts unacceptably unpleasant noise floor. This itself creates quite a bit of tube compression wether clean or dirty.......not a trick I advise to anyone. I immediately changed lowered the preamp gain structure in the clone I have as it made the amp sound profoundly better. B.B. King s the only other guitarist I have been up close with who was willing to generate that much ambient noise. Gating is done at FOH. Its so loud it would literall obscure vocals and prevent quiet passages if not gated in the house.

Passion Presents · January 07, 2010, 08:18:27 PM

Quote from: strangedesign on January 09, 2009, 11:40:29 AM
the ISO-1's cut out any noise that Trey did get in his rig.

Iso-1s are solely and specifically for electrical isolation. I.e. noise from various power sources. These do not affect the amplifier, nor can they cut or reduce noise floor from the individual units themselves...just their power sources. By keeping all the power sources transformer isolated, you do not get the ground loops and other ambient noise from the indiviual power sources in the rack, or from two pedals power sources interacting and creating ghost noise.

cactuskeeb · January 10, 2010, 10:32:03 AM

Quote from: Passion Presents on January 07, 2010, 08:12:28 PM
The noise in Treys 65 deluxe was the by product of the the tubes being run ultra, ultra hot. By hot I mean high plate voltage on the 6v6s, as well as the preamp gain structure. Combined they give an extremely high.....and by most accounts unacceptably unpleasant noise floor. This itself creates quite a bit of tube compression wether clean or dirty.......not a trick I advise to anyone. I immediately changed lowered the preamp gain structure in the clone I have as it made the amp sound profoundly better. B.B. King s the only other guitarist I have been up close with who was willing to generate that much ambient noise. Gating is done at FOH. Its so loud it would literall obscure vocals and prevent quiet passages if not gated in the house.

Interesting. Thanks!

Happyorange27 · January 02, 2012, 10:57:33 AM

Quote from: Passion Presents on January 07, 2010, 08:12:28 PM
The noise in Treys 65 deluxe was the by product of the the tubes being run ultra, ultra hot. By hot I mean high plate voltage on the 6v6s, as well as the preamp gain structure. Combined they give an extremely high.....and by most accounts unacceptably unpleasant noise floor. This itself creates quite a bit of tube compression wether clean or dirty.......not a trick I advise to anyone. I immediately changed lowered the preamp gain structure in the clone I have as it made the amp sound profoundly better.

Something doesn't sound right here. When you increase plate voltage you actually increase headroom, increase dynamics, decrease distortion and decrease compression.
Now if you you are talking about increasing the grid bias of the output tubes, then I can somewhat agree with this scenario but you said plate voltage. Please clarify if you ever read this:)