Favorite amp for Jam

[Brian27]

All i have to say is Dunlop Rotovibe!!!

[fulltone1989]

All i have to say is Dunlop Rotovibe!!!

I believe that is a pedal, not an amp. Nice stuff though!

[Heady Jam Fan]

Thanks Wilson! I really appreciate it, honestly.

The lower wattage is 60 (class A) right? I am kinda worried that might be too loud, lol. I have been opening up the PPIV (post phase inverter master volume) on my Bassman the whole way and running it with the volume at around 3 (still a little bit overdrive, not much headroom) and it is sooooo loud.

Either way, I plan on trekin to try that amp tomorrow, although I already have a buzz - family dinner for the holiday weekend, and I plan on walking to the bar now... I don't get to drink too often any more and if I am hung over, all I will do tomorrow is eat pierogies.

Actually, the blue stripe in class A is only 15 watts, but in the manual, it explains that it is a much louder 15 watts than you hear from other amps.  When in simulclass, it's 75 watts.  And this info isn't off the web, that's straight from the Mesa MkIII manual.  Info I've found on the internet that is in line with what I just stated says that the green stripe is 25 watts in class A because pentode wiring instead of the triode wiring for the bluestripe allowed for more power.  And the older striped models then are 60/100.  So that, once again all depends on which stripe color the amp is, but like I said, don't let assumptions about the stripes get in the way of your opinion.  In fact, I think you should plug in and play and dial in some tone before you even decide to check and see which stripe color it has anyway.   

Hey, just reading about this stuff and the info on the net is pretty inconsistent. I emailed Mesa over the weekend and haven't heard back yet. It seems that the 60/100 switch causes a lot of confusion because a lot of amps have that switch and don't put out either of those wattages. My understanding is only Mesa with 4 6L6 tubes put out 100watts, 2 6L6s would be 60watts - so I suppose an amp that can drop 2 of 4 6L6s could switch between those amounts of power (watts). However, that would not be simul-class. The Simul-Class amps with 2 6L6s and 2 EL34s max at 75watts, dropping the 2 6L6s decreases the power by 60watts to 15 (loud) watts. This could be different with later models, maybe they run the EL34s in pentode rather than triode...

So if I were to try another speaker, it would have to handle a very loud 15watts in "class a" but I would not risk blowing out a Celestion Blue. The guys at Avatar speakers/cabs sell Celestions at a good price and suggested a Gold, which handles 50watts. I think that ought to be fine for the 15watt setting I would hope, especially with Celestions conservative power ratings. However, it would be risky on the 75watt setting if you turn it up too loud. A Weber Alnico Blue Dog 75 or 100watt would probably be the safest match if you intend to play a loud outdoor gig with no FOH or PA, but I would suspect that they start to differ tonally (get warmer) compared to the alleged Celestion Blue that Trey uses. On that note, it seems that Trey might use Celestion Blues, Weber 50w Alnico Blue Dogs w/ Light Dope, or some sort of Celestion G12s.

I like the EVM so I will see if GAS for a more Phish-Accurate speaker passes (probably won't). I am pretty sure I could sell a Gold at or near the price it would cost from Avatar. On the other hand, the guys at Weber are awesome and I would love to give them my business. The EVM is 200watts and my biggest fear would be blowing an expensive speaker that I am hoping will be an upgrade, but I do like that Alnico compression, the difficulty is that is seems to shine when you really match the amps output to the speakers sweet spot and I would definitely doubt I could do that in various settings.

Just some food for thought.

[Brian27]

All i have to say is Dunlop Rotovibe!!!

I believe that is a pedal, not an amp. Nice stuff though!

I know that Fulltone. Someone had mentioned Vibe pedals before me and i was just stating my liking for the Rotovibe. Sorry to be off the subject.

[fulltone1989]

All i have to say is Dunlop Rotovibe!!!

I believe that is a pedal, not an amp. Nice stuff though!

I know that Fulltone. Someone had mentioned Vibe pedals before me and i was just stating my liking for the Rotovibe. Sorry to be off the subject.

Didn't mean to be condescending... What's the difference though? Is theRotovibe more of a Leslie Sim?

[Brian27]

The Rotovibe comes closer to sounding like a leslie sim then a lot of other vibe units. To me the Rotovibe sounds more Phasey then pulsating which i like. Although it has more of a leslie sound i think it is a great Vibe unit.

[Heady Jam Fan]

So I had been searching for what speaker would be best for my amp; I like the compression of Alnico, but it is pricier, especially since you want to match the wattage/power handling to the loudest you will use the amp (so you can get there without blowing the speaker when you need to), but then you aren't hitting the sweet spot to get the alnico singing....

I didn't want to put my Red Fang in the MKIII cuz I thought I was getting cone cry when using it in my Bassman, which is a lot quieter even at 50watts than the MKIII at 15watts, so I was scared it would burst. I decided to try it anyway and played for a few hours, flipped back and forth between speakers, got the volume pretty high on the amp and the Red Fang performed beautifully.

I realized I could recreate the 'cone cry' with in multiple scenarios; different guitars, different amps, different speakers, even some different effects. I was tightening and loosening screws on my speakers, etc - frustrating stuff! I was getting the cone cry to various decrease with pretty much different rigs!

I ended up realizing it was mostly happening if full-out extremely midrangy leads - which makes sense - but I realized I use my Strymon El Cap in those settings! I hadn't realized that separate factor and it was making a mild, negligible nasty harmonic nearly as loud as the intended note. So I ended up adjusting my pickups (height - in part because I am still tweaking them for better balance, but they are lower and more balanced than ever now), the tone of the MKIII and balance of R1 to lead and backing off the El Cap a bit - then walk down the street to meet my folks for dinner - and when I came back, no terrible Cone Cry even when I was pushing for it.

I had even been able to get those ghost notes while using the EVM12L, which was very frustrating at first - it felt like an infection that was spreading across my gear, lol - but made me realize it wasn't just the Red Fang crapping out. I don't mean this post as a rant or complaint, but in case someone else experiences this, I think this could help - not necessarily that "cone cry doesn't come from the speaker," but rather a few minor adjustments can relieve a lot of distress! It is interesting how such a drastic phenomena arises out of minute circumstances in multiples nodes of a (musical) system - and how small changes can fix them - like a butterfly flapping its wings in japan flings Dorothy outta Kansas - complexity sciences, and the trend in the West is so reductionist and patholigizing rather than holistic!

Anyway - the Red Fang was sweet - I got my pickups sounding more balanced than ever, now I was finally comfortable using the bridge for brighter rhythm and the neck for thicker stuff, changing on the fly - and (I described in another post) I was pretty happy with my vibe settings today! All in all not bad, lot of tweaking.

[cactuskeeb]

It is interesting how such a drastic phenomena arises out of minute circumstances in multiples nodes of a (musical) system - and how small changes can fix them - like a butterfly flapping its wings in japan flings Dorothy outta Kansas - complexity sciences, and the trend in the West is so reductionist and patholigizing rather than holistic!

I applaud you for teetering on the cusp of sanity with whatever it is you're trying to communicate in the above.

There is such a thing as playing through so-called cone cry. You just play through it until it goes away. Don't ask me how this happens but the phenomenon is real nonetheless.

[Heady Jam Fan]

It is interesting how such a drastic phenomena arises out of minute circumstances in multiples nodes of a (musical) system - and how small changes can fix them - like a butterfly flapping its wings in japan flings Dorothy outta Kansas - complexity sciences, and the trend in the West is so reductionist and patholigizing rather than holistic!

I applaud you for teetering on the cusp of sanity with whatever it is you're trying to communicate in the above.

There is such a thing as playing through so-called cone cry. You just play through it until it goes away. Don't ask me how this happens but the phenomenon is real nonetheless.

Haha, not sure what I expected as a response to that, but yes, fairly insane. I am a doctoral student of psychology too - scary?

Pretty simple explanation for that, but a lot of reading/media for it to make sense; phenomonological philosophy>cogntive psychology>butterfly effect>Wizard of Oz>Complexity Science (which I learned about studying music therapy)>Medical (among other) trends in the west vs. east - meaning we think we can reduce a problem to one source (ie Dr. House would say its ludicrous to think multiple symptoms come from multiple disorders, we are just missing the underlying pathology), but sometime it is small percentages of a problem from multiple sources (butterfly flapping its wings halfway around the world makes a small change in the global weather - not noticeable on its own, mix it with other things and there's a hurricane). We certainly be believe this if we upgrade our 'decent' patch cables to Lavas; small changes in multiple places make a big difference in the end. I'm drunk.

Maybe your right about playing through it, I've no clue, all I know is I was making a lot of changes before I went to dinner, when I got back it wasn't bad enough to stop me from playing. The speaker is plenty broken in, so thats not it.

[cactuskeeb]

It is interesting how such a drastic phenomena arises out of minute circumstances in multiples nodes of a (musical) system - and how small changes can fix them - like a butterfly flapping its wings in japan flings Dorothy outta Kansas - complexity sciences, and the trend in the West is so reductionist and patholigizing rather than holistic!

I applaud you for teetering on the cusp of sanity with whatever it is you're trying to communicate in the above.

There is such a thing as playing through so-called cone cry. You just play through it until it goes away. Don't ask me how this happens but the phenomenon is real nonetheless.

Haha, not sure what I expected as a response to that, but yes, fairly insane. I am a doctoral student of psychology too - scary?

Pretty simple explanation for that, but a lot of reading/media for it to make sense; phenomonological philosophy>cogntive psychology>butterfly effect>Wizard of Oz>Complexity Science (which I learned about studying music therapy)>Medical (among other) trends in the west vs. east - meaning we think we can reduce a problem to one source (ie Dr. House would say its ludicrous to think multiple symptoms come from multiple disorders, we are just missing the underlying pathology), but sometime it is small percentages of a problem from multiple sources (butterfly flapping its wings halfway around the world makes a small change in the global weather - not noticeable on its own, mix it with other things and there's a hurricane). We certainly be believe this if we upgrade our 'decent' patch cables to Lavas; small changes in multiple places make a big difference in the end. I'm drunk.

Maybe your right about playing through it, I've no clue, all I know is I was making a lot of changes before I went to dinner, when I got back it wasn't bad enough to stop me from playing. The speaker is plenty broken in, so thats not it.

I've always read each episode of House as being a dramatization of the ideal efficaciousness of differential diagnosis.

[Happyorange27]

I laughed when you said you were drunk Heady!

[Heady Jam Fan]

It is interesting how such a drastic phenomena arises out of minute circumstances in multiples nodes of a (musical) system - and how small changes can fix them - like a butterfly flapping its wings in japan flings Dorothy outta Kansas - complexity sciences, and the trend in the West is so reductionist and patholigizing rather than holistic!

I applaud you for teetering on the cusp of sanity with whatever it is you're trying to communicate in the above.

There is such a thing as playing through so-called cone cry. You just play through it until it goes away. Don't ask me how this happens but the phenomenon is real nonetheless.

Haha, not sure what I expected as a response to that, but yes, fairly insane. I am a doctoral student of psychology too - scary?

Pretty simple explanation for that, but a lot of reading/media for it to make sense; phenomonological philosophy>cogntive psychology>butterfly effect>Wizard of Oz>Complexity Science (which I learned about studying music therapy)>Medical (among other) trends in the west vs. east - meaning we think we can reduce a problem to one source (ie Dr. House would say its ludicrous to think multiple symptoms come from multiple disorders, we are just missing the underlying pathology), but sometime it is small percentages of a problem from multiple sources (butterfly flapping its wings halfway around the world makes a small change in the global weather - not noticeable on its own, mix it with other things and there's a hurricane). We certainly be believe this if we upgrade our 'decent' patch cables to Lavas; small changes in multiple places make a big difference in the end. I'm drunk.

Maybe your right about playing through it, I've no clue, all I know is I was making a lot of changes before I went to dinner, when I got back it wasn't bad enough to stop me from playing. The speaker is plenty broken in, so thats not it.

I've always read each episode of House as being a dramatization of the ideal efficaciousness of differential diagnosis.

Lol, Yessir - differential in order to get at a reductionist pathology Too much of a coincidence to believe a patient (or guitar rig) has two things wrong with it, it must have only one source for the problems.

[Heady Jam Fan]

I laughed when you said you were drunk Heady!

I wasn't planning on it as I have a few things to do today (including a Crawfish Boil a couple blocks away), but had some wine with dinner and enjoyed playing music so much, at some point I just realized I had left my house and was walking to the bar!

[Heady Jam Fan]

I switched back to the EVM12L last night. I loved the Red Fang on the clean channel and the lead channel (set clean), but occasionally still got cone cry that I could not play through or dial out. I like the EVM more on the rhythm channel - the Red Fang made the upper-mids a bit too harsh and gritty. If I were only playing Jam, I would probably go with a Weber 100 watt, but I assume it will have the same effect on the upper mids on the R2 channel as the Red Fang (I found the Weber 50w to be brighter than the Red Fang, though it wasn't fully broken in) and I use that channel for classic rock type stuff.

Additionally, I like the wider (3in?) cone on the EVM, less directional treble, as well as the fact that it has 3db less sensitivity (100 vs 103), which is quite noticeable, especially since it is a loud amp. I miss the Alnico, but it seems rare that I am playing at the perfect volume to sit in the Alnico's sweet spot anyway.

Another food-for-thought, um, thought: I read an interesting thread on GrailTone about using a Weber Copper Cap Module to replace the solid state rectifier and give the amp more of a tube-rectified sound (sure it different, the voltage drop is linear rather than exponential or whatever). I probably won't do this, but thought it was interesting. I assume this would also result in a sweet spot in the volume for a bit more sag and compression and that sweet spot is likely louder than playing at home or a small jam - at volumes higher than that I find I get enough compression from the Mesa.