Anyone else think Trey has completely lost his edge?

[Poster]

That detune setting is not the only thing he uses, its so subtle even on the deep setting... There has to be more to the combo, his pitch bends are so pronounced compared to what the whammy produces on its own (in detune), apart from the octave up/down settings which muddles the sound. I'm perplexed and frustrated...sorry for hijacking the thread...

NOT DETUNE 2nd down 2nd down 2nd down 2nd down 2nd down 2nd down 2nd down 2nd down 2nd down 2nd down 2nd down 2nd down 2nd down 2nd down 2nd down 2nd down 2nd down 2nd down 2nd down 2nd down 2nd down 2nd down 2nd down 2nd down 2nd down 2nd down 2nd down 2nd down 2nd down 2nd down 2nd down 2nd down 2nd down 2nd down 2nd down 2nd down 2nd down 2nd down 2nd down 2nd down 2nd down 2nd down 2nd down 2nd down 2nd down 2nd down 2nd down 2nd down 2nd down 2nd down 2nd down 2nd down 2nd down 2nd down 2nd down 2nd down 2nd down 2nd down 2nd down 2nd down 2nd down 2nd down 2nd down 2nd down 2nd down 2nd down 2nd down 2nd down 2nd down 2nd down 2nd down 2nd down 2nd down 2nd down 2nd down 2nd down 2nd down 2nd down 2nd down 2nd down 2nd down 2nd down 2nd down 2nd down

[raisingfreen]

So I guess if the topic is now about the NOT DETUNE issue and away from the "lost his edge", I will second poster's suggestion as I have tried it (with a whammy II) and using the 2nd down is spot on (for this specific sound being discussed). It's when and how he (Trey) uses it that is the trick to master. If I remember correctly the 2nd down was suggested and confirmed many moons ago right after everyone noticed the new sound. I also remember Poster suggesting using the 2nd down as one setting and using the other setting for the 1 octave down. Flipping between the two depending on the song and or jam. Seems the deep jams require the 1 octave down plus, Leslie etc, etc...... as discussed many times, as well as the 2nd down for the aptly named whale call sounds (for lack of a better term). I will admit however, that I don't hear as many whale sounds as I thought I did initially. I have grown to hear and see it's usefulness. What's so cool is we wouldn't even be discussing it if some other big name guitar player had already made it a trademark, its not original per say but unique because Trey does it in a different way, in my opinion, than has been done before. I will say that Gilmour puts this to great affect, but in a much more subtle yet sexy way, ie, "The Blue" (1 octave up).

I was a newbie hear once and one thing I have learned, is that if you haven't actually tried the advice listed, previous posts or otherwise, than tread lightly on firm absolutes, at least in opinions. The answers are hear.

By the way, anyone know what ever happened to Jeff Goldberg? I used to live in DC and jam with him in Fairfax, VA occasionally and I lost touch about 8 years ago or so. He was another guy that used to know a bunch of these tricks.

[cactuskeeb]

and the truth finally comes out, Cactus is just still pissed Trey isnt using his favorite amp anymore :0(

Sorry Cactus brother, but that made me laugh really fucking hard.  I get what you're saying though, but I sure don't think he's lost his edge from the shows I've heard.  Just my opinion, and it's more humble than most on here.

It's true I love that goddamn amp....what?  What!?

[sour d]

Too much travel in the 2nd down. Use the octave down and feather it in. More expressive. Also go all the way toe down in 1 octave down with a uni vibe and nail the sound like what trey is playing on the thing when you log on to phish.com

[Poster]

Too much travel in the 2nd down. Use the octave down and feather it in. More expressive. Also go all the way toe down in 1 octave down with a uni vibe and nail the sound like what trey is playing on the thing when you log on to phish.com

were not talking about 2 octaves down, 2nd down is like bending a whammy bar.

[sour d]

1 octave down setting

[sour d]

1 octave down. same as 2nd down but your foot doesn't move as far

[Poster]

1 octave down. same as 2nd down but your foot doesn't move as far

6/10/09 undermind - that isnt octave down dude. fail :0D

[sour d]

I guess I'll try to explain myself one more time before I drop it because I still think you "fail" to understand. Let's say the full travel of the pedal is 20 degrees. In 2nd down mode your foot has to travel the full 20 degrees to make that sound. In 1 octave down your foot would only travel about 7 degrees to make that sound instead of using the full travel of the pedal. You could make the same sound in 2 octave down setting if you only move the pedal like 2 degrees. Kind of like playing slide, you have to use your ears to know where that 2nd down sound is in the travel of the pedal. Then you have the option varying how far you push the pedal with different notes to get different sounds. The reason I brought it up in the first place is because there is always more than one way to get to the same result. 2nd down is great when I'm playing with my whammy1, 2nd down is great when I use my whammy2 pedals, but guess what, I myself have a whammy4 too and so do a lot of people that read this stuff, and I bet you can't guess what a whammy4 doesn't have, a 2nd down function. I not trying to upset you. I was just offering some advice.

[Poster]

i hear what your saying, i just thought we were talking about trey, what he uses, and how he uses it. At knoxville i watched him push that rocker all the way down all night. My seats were a few rows up from the stage Trey side thats pretty much why Iam so confident, as I got a demo from Red himself for almost 3 hours.

One completely unrelated thing about the whammy i just noticed this past weekend, is that the rocker was getting noisy. I dont know if it was just dirt or what but it was making this plastic whiny noise whenever i moved the pedal around. Hit it with some WD40 on each screw that holds the rocker and WOW what a difference. Its silky smooth now. :0)

[dopaphrit]

Ok, I'm gonna say it... My sister turned me on to phish in 1990 and I've been hitting shows/tours ever since. I feel the same way as cactuskeeb on this one and it kinda hurts to admit that my six string hero is sounding sub par. If you listen to any of the recent shows and a mistake is made, 9 times out of ten it was big red. As far as him getting used to a new rig, he should be able to show up with a line6 amp and a squier strat and still blow my mind. Maybe "sober trey" needs to relax and have a couple beers and sample some lot headies. That my friends is probably the magic that is missing.

That last part makes me sick. He's a human being trying to get healthy, so if his music is affected in his struggle to save his life, sobeit. It'll level itself out. Give him time. He's human. Forget the rockstar aspect for a second & respect the fact that he's a person dealing with his own shit outside of pleasing other people.

[dopaphrit]

[. . .] and they're as good as they've been in 10+ years, and now we're complaining?  We've got too much time on our own hands if that's the case. 

But then again....we all already knew that 

Oh, they're great.  Probably, generally speaking, better than they ever were before, if one wants to consider their music as a function of the band's playing cohesively and with skill ("chops").  I just don't understand why Trey doesn't insist on the same dual condenser mic configuration that widened the stereo image of his guitar in the mix.  And why is he playing through the Mark III?  Couldn't he just have someone duplicate the same circuit but without the circuit board, thereby solving the fundamental sound issue regarding this guitar tone; namely, that it's high-frequency response tends toward thin, brittle, and squealish, while, at the same time, his low-end is all muddied out and unfocused.

Go get a steady gig so that you can worry about your own fucking tone instead of his. You obviously have nothing better to do & just want people to think you know what you're talking about. I can't believe any musician would spend their time worrying about what another musician uses for gear (Much less what they PLAY!!!) even if its someone like Trey, instead of their own shit. You spend all your time in some messageboard....why don't you fucking close your laptop & go practice your own stuff and find your own voice. boo-ya. kbye.

[Walker done done]

[. . .] and they're as good as they've been in 10+ years, and now we're complaining?  We've got too much time on our own hands if that's the case. 

But then again....we all already knew that 

Oh, they're great.  Probably, generally speaking, better than they ever were before, if one wants to consider their music as a function of the band's playing cohesively and with skill ("chops").  I just don't understand why Trey doesn't insist on the same dual condenser mic configuration that widened the stereo image of his guitar in the mix.  And why is he playing through the Mark III?  Couldn't he just have someone duplicate the same circuit but without the circuit board, thereby solving the fundamental sound issue regarding this guitar tone; namely, that it's high-frequency response tends toward thin, brittle, and squealish, while, at the same time, his low-end is all muddied out and unfocused.

Go get a steady gig so that you can worry about your own fucking tone instead of his. You obviously have nothing better to do & just want people to think you know what you're talking about. I can't believe any musician would spend their time worrying about what another musician uses for gear (Much less what they PLAY!!!) even if its someone like Trey, instead of their own shit. You spend all your time in some messageboard....why don't you fucking close your laptop & go practice your own stuff and find your own voice. boo-ya. kbye.

I think that's taking a little too far off track, but hey, you're entitled to your opinion too.  I kinda want to write more in response, but don't have it in me right now.

[Poster]

[/quote]
Go get a steady gig so that you can worry about your own fucking tone instead of his. You obviously have nothing better to do & just want people to think you know what you're talking about. I can't believe any musician would spend their time worrying about what another musician uses for gear (Much less what they PLAY!!!) even if its someone like Trey, instead of their own shit. You spend all your time in some messageboard....why don't you fucking close your laptop & go practice your own stuff and find your own voice. boo-ya. kbye.
[/quote]

Not trolling at all huh?

[ColForbin]

Ooooohhhhh!!!  Is that what trolling is?  I've never seen it in the flesh, nor had it explained to me.  It was far less scary than what I had thought it would be though, nor is it 'boo-ya' worthy, I like to save my boo-ya's so they don't lose their significance.