Favorite Themes in Phish Songs: How you nail the tone??

[Heady Jam Fan]

I think we would all agree that Trey has a very versatile rig - a pretty consistent core tone, but infinite variability within that range.

I find myself sometimes getting lost in a number of variables to match his tone: guitar knob settings, how many TS's are on, single vs bucker, series vs parallel and amp channel.

My idea for this thread is to have people contribute how they matched Trey's tone in certain parts of Phish songs.

For example, I love the tone on Stash and have tried flip-flopping almost all of the variables I listed above and it is still evasive! It is clean, but very midrangy and sustaining - more so than he gets with one TS and I didn't quite get there by adding a midrange EQ (I run after the comp to simulate his 2nd channel on the Deluxe). Today I tried 2 TS9's with my volume rolled way back and felt it was much closer, but that seems counterintuitive to me - I guess I reserved both TS's for the more distorted stuff.

How have you matched some of your favorite Phish tones?

[MomaDan]

I dont really try to nail Trey's tone but instead just make my tone sound good playing Trey parts. I also have a very uncomplicated setup so there's only so many options without a Boogie or Deluxe for those tones.

What recordings your listening to will change the exact sound, like in my opinion there are more mids and treble in Trey's rig now than the 90's. And of course 2.0 without the Ross

[Brian27]

Usually what i do is i Always set my EQ at 12:00 and turn my volume on my amp all the way down. I turn on both my overdrive pedals and leave both volumes cranked all the way before messing with my amp volume. When i turn my volume of my amp up i set it to the desired level and then comes the magic. My first overdrive is always just a boost so i turn that on and then i turn my compressor on. The volume of my compressor is set at unity with the boost pedal, not my main overdrive. My sustain on my comp is set right at 9:00 all the time. Now i crank the drive up all the way on my main overdrive and now i have my sound. If i choose to mess around with the EQ i usually have Bass 12:00 Mids 4:00 and Treble 2:00. That way i can have that classic Mid focused tone that Trey is known for

[Heady Jam Fan]

MomaDan - I don't necessarily try to copy his tone, but it is a great tone he has so I feel like I learn a lot sometimes when I try to get as close as I can.

Brian - that is an interesting way to set up. I usually keep the second TS at unity volume rather than cranked the whole way. I definitely EQ my amp differently though, it is an old Bassman, keep the bass off, treble maxed and bright on, but I roll my tone knob way back, which gives me the most mids and punch.

Both of you made good points about various versions of each tune, I find myself starting with the studio usually then check out some live versions.

[the_great_lemon]

When I'm copping some of Trey's stuff I find that the volume control on the guitar is one of the most, if not, the most important factor in getting the right response from the rest of your set up.  Before I got my semi-trey set-up i have now, I was using my blues jr. with the vol (gain) anywhere between 3 o'clock and full up, and used a boss eq to boost the tone for more gain/midrange.  I became accustomed to using my guitars volume for most of my variations in gain and sustain as i switched between rhythm lead or clean(ish) parts.

So for something like a 3.0 Twist, I have my comp on (like always) to keep the volume consistent, and use my SHOD and go between dirtier and cleaner parts just with the volume control because of it's dynamics.  Take a listen to the transition from Crosseyed into Twist from 1/1/11 (there is a high quality vid on youtube by mkdevo).  You can hear him start off really soft, with very little gain, and it slowly builds to the full-on midrangey awesomeness by the verse.

I find it interesting that you roll your tone back as a constant.  I usually only use my tone knobs when i'm getting that ice pick from the super bright Jensen in my BJ NOS.  (looking to swap that out by the way...)

And don't fret, you're not alone in trying to find that tone in Stash....

Well i hope this incredibly long winded responce helps 

edit: Here's the link to that video, the crosseyed is about 12 min long so that's when the transition starts.  also, some real good jams in this one though i'm biased as i saw it but yea whatever lol http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OENhG30tqOA

[Heady Jam Fan]

When I'm copping some of Trey's stuff I find that the volume control on the guitar is one of the most, if not, the most important factor in getting the right response from the rest of your set up.  Before I got my semi-trey set-up i have now, I was using my blues jr. with the vol (gain) anywhere between 3 o'clock and full up, and used a boss eq to boost the tone for more gain/midrange.  I became accustomed to using my guitars volume for most of my variations in gain and sustain as i switched between rhythm lead or clean(ish) parts.

So for something like a 3.0 Twist, I have my comp on (like always) to keep the volume consistent, and use my SHOD and go between dirtier and cleaner parts just with the volume control because of it's dynamics.  Take a listen to the transition from Crosseyed into Twist from 1/1/11 (there is a high quality vid on youtube by mkdevo).  You can hear him start off really soft, with very little gain, and it slowly builds to the full-on midrangey awesomeness by the verse.

I find it interesting that you roll your tone back as a constant.  I usually only use my tone knobs when i'm getting that ice pick from the super bright Jensen in my BJ NOS.  (looking to swap that out by the way...)

And don't fret, you're not alone in trying to find that tone in Stash....

Well i hope this incredibly long winded responce helps 

Not long winded - thorough!

Interesting ideas, while not quite a Trey rig it seems with the Sweet Honey (though I hear great things about it).

I find the tone knob almost as helpful as the volume! With it set in the middle, I can turn it up if need be, particularly if I am using a neck humbucker. Plus the treble knob on the amp, when cranked, brings up some of the upper-midrange, so keeping an old Fender with only 2 EQ knobs as bright as possible, then rolling back the guitars tone knob rounds out the treble while maintaining as much midrange as possible. I think Jimi Page and Jerry Garcia are known for doing this - I tried it and can't go back.

I also ride my volume as well, especially when doing the Trey/Jam thing, less often when playing classic rock as I switch between my clean and dirty channel, if I need more dirt, I just hit a boost (MXR Micro Amp, can control the level knob with my foot).

I had two Blues Juniors this year - great platform - a new speaker, tubes and output transformer makes it incredible! I used to run them in stereo. I play with an Eminence Red Fang in my Bassman, Weber just sent me a Blue Dog to try out and it is awesome as well - I posted a clip of the comparison I made on this site. If you are going for the Trey thing, either of those speakers are great choices and cheaper than the C Blue by far. Anyway, Weber let me hang onto the speaker so if you are interested in checking it out, let me know and we can figure something out, which would be particularly easy if you happened to live in Pittsburgh, but I doubt it, lol.

[Happyorange27]

You already have a pretty good amp.

The simple yet expensive answer...Get a guitar that closely matches Trey's as possible.

I used to try to squeeze blood from the stone all the time with my old rig.  Now with my AO I can't avoid the Trey tone regardless of settings (in my opinion).  Once it's there all settings sound very familiar.  It's like I would actually have to try hard to NOT sound like Trey.

I hope this doesn't sound snobby or anything.  I'm just reinforcing the power of the guitar man.  I think anyone with and AO or similar is going to back this statement up.  Start figuring out how you are going to get a sweet ass guitar!

[Heady Jam Fan]

You already have a pretty good amp.

The simple yet expensive answer...Get a guitar that closely matches Trey's as possible.

I used to try to squeeze blood from the stone all the time with my old rig.  Now with my AO I can't avoid the Trey tone regardless of settings (in my opinion).  Once it's there all settings sound very familiar.  It's like I would actually have to try hard to NOT sound like Trey.

I hope this doesn't sound snobby or anything.  I'm just reinforcing the power of the guitar man.  I think anyone with and AO or similar is going to back this statement up.  Start figuring out how you are going to get a sweet ass guitar!

Not snobby IMO, I agree, my solidbody is great for classic rock, but lacks that rich, almost 3D resonance. On the bright side, I just bought an Artinger at 1/3 of the new price! I'll get it in a couple weeks. Hopefully I will sell my Les Paul soon though...

For this thread, I guess my I meant the small nuances in the gear to nail specific sounds, but this is still all good stuff.

[manicstarseed]

.....  Start figuring out how you are going to get a sweet ass guitar!

This...

I just will not be trading any of my axes in. They all suit a purpose.

[Happyorange27]

.....  Start figuring out how you are going to get a sweet ass guitar!

This...

I just will not be trading any of my axes in. They all suit a purpose.

I hear ya.  I wish I could have kept my Wolfgang.  It was pretty sweet in many way.  Oh the limits of cash...

[manicstarseed]

Im scheming for a doc.... If my options continue to "grow" Ill turn them around and send paul all 10G once we can agree on a slot and build. Otherwise Ill spend it on somethinmg more useful.

[Heady Jam Fan]

It looks like you already have a hollowbody in your pic, just sayin...

[the_great_lemon]

I totally agree with what happy said about the guitar.  That is probably the single most important piece of equipment in anyone's rig.  If it doesn't feel right, have that special resonance to it or sound right unplugged (always my first assessment of a possible purchase) there is no way you are going to get what you are looking for out of it. This is an exaggeration of course but nonetheless....

and speaking of Manic's picture...was that taken at the Vibes this past summer? the background looks awfully familiar

[Heady Jam Fan]

Yea... I tend to put a ton of weight on the amp, but the guitar as well for sure. The thing about a whole rig IMO is the small percentage of improvement adds up to a lot more tone (though the small percentages tend to get pricier and pricier).

[manicstarseed]

...
and speaking of Manic's picture...was that taken at the Vibes this past summer? the background looks awfully familiar

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