Dumb Question About Comping

Jkendrick · January 30, 2016, 02:54:57 PM

Do any of you have any tricks to count measures when comping? I was playing with someone last night and we were jamming on So What. I kept getting lost thinking "wait is that 12 or 14 measures I've played of D Dorian?" Most tunes aren't hard but when you get into a 16-8-8 vamp form I'm either too in head to play anything meaningful or I get lost.

Heady Jam Fan · January 30, 2016, 04:06:07 PM

Quote from: Jkendrick on January 30, 2016, 02:54:57 PM
Do any of you have any tricks to count measures when comping? I was playing with someone last night and we were jamming on So What. I kept getting lost thinking "wait is that 12 or 14 measures I've played of D Dorian?" Most tunes aren't hard but when you get into a 16-8-8 vamp form I'm either too in head to play anything meaningful or I get lost.

I agree - I get lost too sometimes. I find that a good drummer can keep me clued in. I can count the number of fills rather than measures, or even better, he might play certain fills that key me in to a change coming.

Jkendrick · January 30, 2016, 04:27:19 PM

Totally. It's much easier with a good drummer. This jam was just two acoustic guitars and I kept screwing up the number of measures, particularly on the 16 measures of D Dorian, while the other guitar was soloing. I try to use a pattern of substitutions to break it down a bit. So the first measure I might play strictly Dm7, the second measure Dm7 to Em7, the third just Dm7 again, and the fourth Dm7 to Cmaj7. Then I only have to remember to play that pattern four times. It works but again I feel like it's limiting.

Hans Moleman · January 30, 2016, 06:43:17 PM

Other than a 12 bar blues form, most jazz/rock/funk etc. can be subdivided into "groups" of 8, which is how I like to think about it. So What, AABA form, is 4 groups of 8. Don't think of the AA as 16, that's too hard to keep track of, just think of 2 different 8 bar sections.

Weirdly, I find I get lost when my mind wanders, and my mind wanders when I'm comping boring stuff and not really locking in. Learn as many different chord shapes and play with as much variety as possible in your comping. Sticking to a pattern will allow your mind to wander and you'll loose the form, or at least that's what usually happens to me. Do you practice with play-alongs? I find they are a great tool and really help you internalize the form.

Wanye Krantz, one of my fave guitarists, talks a lot about groups of 8 and how has learned to "feel" them, you might want to look him up. It sounds silly and esoteric but the goal is to get to a place where you're not counting at all and you've completely internalized the form. One trick for getting 8's is to improvise in 8 bar sections (with a metronome or very simple beat in your DAW), which will help you learn to "feel" the 8 bars without anything to really help you.

Heady Jam Fan · January 31, 2016, 08:35:52 AM

Quote from: Hans Moleman on January 30, 2016, 06:43:17 PM
Other than a 12 bar blues form, most jazz/rock/funk etc. can be subdivided into "groups" of 8, which is how I like to think about it. So What, AABA form, is 4 groups of 8. Don't think of the AA as 16, that's too hard to keep track of, just think of 2 different 8 bar sections.

Weirdly, I find I get lost when my mind wanders, and my mind wanders when I'm comping boring stuff and not really locking in. Learn as many different chord shapes and play with as much variety as possible in your comping. Sticking to a pattern will allow your mind to wander and you'll loose the form, or at least that's what usually happens to me. Do you practice with play-alongs? I find they are a great tool and really help you internalize the form.

Wanye Krantz, one of my fave guitarists, talks a lot about groups of 8 and how has learned to "feel" them, you might want to look him up. It sounds silly and esoteric but the goal is to get to a place where you're not counting at all and you've completely internalized the form. One trick for getting 8's is to improvise in 8 bar sections (with a metronome or very simple beat in your DAW), which will help you learn to "feel" the 8 bars without anything to really help you.

I like that idea of feeling it - I know I will get distracted trying to count it, and trying to count it distracts my playing. Playing with the same band for a while, you fall into a grove you can feel, and my best guess was I was listening to the drummer. I think it is probably also the more you play sets of 8 measures, you get used to it. Although, we would sometimes write in sets of 3, 5, 6... measures and that gets interesting.

No Nice Guy · January 31, 2016, 03:46:39 PM

I actually use modulation effects for this - I'll kick on my Phase 90 and have it very low, then I use where the "LFO" (Low Frequency Oscillator, pedal/synth part which changes a parameter back and forth) is to help. If you aren't in a live setting, you can even find the right spot for it to sync with the beat

fluffytone72 · February 01, 2016, 12:52:48 AM

I'll second the groups of 8 idea. Try it for a while with a metronome and you will start to just feel it when playing with a group. Also, keep your comps interesting and engaging. Listen to any good jazz guitarist and you will get the idea. The more locked and listening you are, the more you will just feel the changes. Joe Pass has a good video on youtube for comping the blues. The ideas could be applied to a number of genres. Too lazy to find it, but just type in Joe Pass instruction video.

cptnjackstei · July 21, 2016, 01:45:32 PM

I used to have similar issues with this. I would get lost quite a bit or just space out and lose count. The easiest and most sure-fire way to not lose the form and to comp melodically over a tune is to just sing the melody in your head the whole time. You wont lose the form, and your ideas will relate to the music a lot better. I practiced singing the melody of standards out loud then comping and/or soloing over it while doing so for a long time. Helped me out tremendously.