Amp Attenuator for Deluxe Reverb

afountas · February 02, 2016, 11:26:27 AM

Two questions:

1. Does anyone have experience using an amp attenuator? I have a deluxe reverb, but i can only crank up to like between 2-3 without it being really loud.

2. What level did Trey have his Deluve Reverb on when he was using it?

Buffered · February 02, 2016, 12:01:34 PM

It's pricey, but the best "attenuator" (technically a reactive load) I've used is the Fryette Power Station. It's incredibly transparent as is, but allows you to match your amps regular tone to the attenuated much better with the added EQ switches and knobs for depth and presence. It's also an effects loop, line out/in, and impedance matcher. You can also boost lower powered amps ala Bad Cat Unleash but this is a 50W tube powered amp vs a 200W SS amp (I think it was rated at that) The power amp is also linear, so it stays pretty clean. I've only gotten it to noon and it was insanely loud I thought.

I use mine with master volume amps because I think they still have to get into a sweet spot to sound their best and the PS allows me to set my amp up to optimum for me, then control the overall dB for situation/room I'm playing in. It's about $599, but you factor in the incredible attenuator/reamper, loop, line I/O, and impendance matcher it's a decent price for what you get.

I'm not sure how Trey sets his DR up with Phish.

Heady Jam Fan · February 02, 2016, 01:55:26 PM

When does your DR start distorting? Mine started to distort by about 4 on the volume, and didn't get much louder from 5-10 (just more distorted). Trey also supposedly used a 12AT7 as the first preamp tube, which has a little less gain and mids, so the amp is slightly cleaner. I used a 12AY7 which is even lower gain.

I think for Trey's earlier years, his DR was on the cleaner side, but a handful of years ago he said he had started turning up the gain on his amps to get a little grit from the amps rather than just the pedals. I personally tend toward his earlier, cleaner settings, but the specific number on the volume knob / dial depends on several factors. This includes the volume going into the amp, the first preamp tube on that amp's channel, the potentiometer (Knob) itself, and other settings.

Regarding the volume going into the amp: Usually Trey sets his Ross around unity volume, but I've seen it set lower. He also went through stints using his Ernie Ball volume pedal more.

Regarding the first preamp tube: the level on the volume knob would be slightly higher when running a tube with a lower gain factor like a 12AT7 or 12AY7 compared to a 12AX7. For example, the volume set at 3 with a 12AX7 might be more similar to the volume set at 4 with a 12AY7.

Regarding the potentiometer: the sweep varies a bit from one pot to the next, but this is particularly likely with an old potentiometer. If your amp is older (as mine was), the numbers on the dial might be somewhat arbitrary. And other settings like a really high treble and bass setting might push the amp a bit more.

I usually set my volume knob around 3 or so. My suggestion is not to look at the knob, but turn the up until you clearly hear overdrive, turn it back down until its clean, and adjust it in between those two points until you find that sweet spot that is clean but full and punchy sounding (too low of a setting will sound weak, dark anemic, etc). I think I remember running my treble around 7 and bass below 3 (maybe around 2), and I put a lead boost in the effect loop of my Badcat Unleash attenuator/reamplifier. Regarding the lead boost, no one can tell you how to match the 2nd channel on Trey's amp: it was apparently heavily modified to give a midrange boost for his leads, so the name of the game is trying to match the tone other ways rather than knowing his settings.

If that sweet spot is too loud, then an attenuator might help. I liked my Unleash. I usually used it as a boost for gigs, but also attenuated when at home. I found it pretty transparent, but no matter what attenuator you use, turning the volume too low will kill the tone simply because things tend to sound better louder. If you just need the amp a touch quieter, a cheaper, simpler attenuator might work, but certainly the reactive load type attenuators give you a lot more (tone, flexibility, etc).

Jkendrick · February 02, 2016, 03:03:10 PM

I just recently got a Fryette Power Station for my silverface and couldn't be happier. It was more than I was looking to spend, but I think it was worth it.

afountas · February 02, 2016, 11:19:06 PM

Thanks for all the feedback.

The amp starts breaking up at around 5, and I do think it sounds better right before that. Another reason, and probably the main reason, I'm thinking about an attenuator is because I get a large volume spike when engaging my Maxon OD9 silvers that are on full volume. I do run them into an analogman bicomp, but it still doesn't solve the volume spike issue. This volume issue drives me crazy and I've been trying to explore ways to solve it once and for all... so if anyone has any ideas better and cheaper than an attenuator (which I'm not sure will even help), I am definitely interested in hearing some ideas.

What made me think about an attenuator in this context is because I'm potentially attributing the volume spike to the relatively low volume level that the amp is on (at tad past 2). I'm thinking the tubes aren't getting saturated enough, so when the OD9s engage, the signal jumps effects the tubes a lot more than they would than if the amp was on 5.

Not sure it's even a good theory, but sort of where I am at now.

Heady Jam Fan · February 03, 2016, 07:15:11 AM

Quote from: afountas on February 02, 2016, 11:19:06 PM
Thanks for all the feedback.

The amp starts breaking up at around 5, and I do think it sounds better right before that. Another reason, and probably the main reason, I'm thinking about an attenuator is because I get a large volume spike when engaging my Maxon OD9 silvers that are on full volume. I do run them into an analogman bicomp, but it still doesn't solve the volume spike issue. This volume issue drives me crazy and I've been trying to explore ways to solve it once and for all... so if anyone has any ideas better and cheaper than an attenuator (which I'm not sure will even help), I am definitely interested in hearing some ideas.

What made me think about an attenuator in this context is because I'm potentially attributing the volume spike to the relatively low volume level that the amp is on (at tad past 2). I'm thinking the tubes aren't getting saturated enough, so when the OD9s engage, the signal jumps effects the tubes a lot more than they would than if the amp was on 5.

Not sure it's even a good theory, but sort of where I am at now.

There could be some truth to your theory. However, the tubes would only be saturated enough not to allow an increase in volume once they are decently distorted. So the attenuator won't solve the volume jump between comp alone and OD>comp. I use a boost>comp to keep the volume and compression similar between my clean and overdriven sound. However, the attenuator will help with getting your amp's input volume at the sweet spot without blowing the roof off your home.

Other than an attenuator... what speaker are you using? If it is very efficient / sensitive, like 100db, maybe try something less efficient. Some Weber and WGS speakers, for example, are 96db. If you use a 4 or 16ohm speaker, that will also decrease the amps efficiency. However, that puts more strain on the output transformer and power tubes: its considered in the safe range, but something you have to decide yourself.

afountas · February 03, 2016, 09:46:28 AM

The amp speaker is a stock Jensen C-12K which has a 99.1db sensitivity, I've been thinking about replacing it anyways since it's not the greatest speaker to begin with. I will definitely consider something less efficient but probably would stay at 8 ohms.

Regarding using a boost pedal. Do you mean you turn it on for the clean tone and then disengage the boost before you kick on OD pedals?

Heady Jam Fan · February 03, 2016, 09:57:19 AM

Quote from: afountas on February 03, 2016, 09:46:28 AM
The amp speaker is a stock Jensen C-12K which has a 99.1db sensitivity, I've been thinking about replacing it anyways since it's not the greatest speaker to begin with. I will definitely consider something less efficient but probably would stay at 8 ohms.

Regarding using a boost pedal. Do you mean you turn it on for the clean tone and then disengage the boost before you kick on OD pedals?

Yep - on for clean! From right to left, I have the footswitch for my clean boost first, mild OD second, and cranked up TS9 third, all right next to each other. I can step on two of the footswitches at a time, turning one off and the other on simultaneously, to avoid tap dancing. I always struggled to understand how Trey's clean tone hung in there with his overdriven tone - that seems a pretty common question that comes up in discussing Trey's gear/sound. At gig volumes with some more compression occurring at the mic, console and via the PA, he might not need that clean boost. However, thats the best way I've been able to solve the difference in how my clean and overdrive sounds. I turn up the clean boost as loud as I can before the compressor starts getting gritty.

afountas · February 03, 2016, 10:29:13 AM

Thanks man. Great insight. i'm thinking I will AB switch my clean and dirty channels with a boost on the clean and solve this once and for all.

dontpanic · February 06, 2016, 12:02:07 AM

Reconfigure amp volume with ts9 volumes. Do not recommend the attenuator for the purpose you seek as it is designed to increase the range of power available for your amp (not assuming you don't know this). Your not minimizing volume, or attempting to go beyond your amps availability. Push the amp a bit more, just before break up and get a tone you love. If you can't, get a new amp. Set the volume back on the screamer (I know I know.... I never wanted to run any of at anything but full level, but there is actually a nice little range to maintain tone and knock down volume quite a bit!). And if the screamer doesn't sound good at new levels, get a silver sd-1!

Buffered · February 08, 2016, 11:09:15 AM

Well there's a fundamental change in the response and tone by changing your screamer's levels and you may or may not like it. Getting a similar sound whether you're onstage or at home is important for me and for that I use an attenuator. Some attenuators boost lower powered amps, but you're re-amping at that point which is a different process altogether...