Looking for a new amp

Hoody · July 11, 2014, 04:17:38 PM

Dedicated - i did not get the PM, try again. thx, sorry for public post

Deadicated Phan · July 11, 2014, 09:40:23 PM

Can't thank you guys enough for the info and recommendations. I think you've all persuaded me to go with a Bandmaster, it seems too good to be true! It looks like mid 60s ones are going for around 800, which is blowing my mind. Will definitely let y'all know what happens

PS- if anyone has a 1x12 cabinet they're looking to sell, please let me know!

Down_With_Sco · July 11, 2014, 09:55:01 PM

Nice choice, you could also look at a Bassman head as well, if you don't need in-amp tremolo.

Buffered · July 11, 2014, 10:11:37 PM

I'm looking to sell my Groove Tubes Soul O 45 combo shell with the Weber Cali ceramic 80W 8 ohmer in her. It's a solid birch cab, and is open back. Sounds great but it's heavy. Are you from VT? Maybe we could meet.

Heady Jam Fan · July 12, 2014, 08:02:26 AM

Since a few vintage amps are being discussed...

The Bandmaster and Bassman both use 6L6's while the DR uses 6V6 tubes. This will make a difference in tone. The JJ 6V6S is between the 6V6 and 6L6 as far as tone and feel - there are a lot of forum discussions out there about the difference in tone and feel. Completely a matter of preference.

Another difference is the Output Transformer Size. The DR uses a 20w Output Transformer while 2 6V6's can put out 24w. The Bandmaster uses a 38w Output Transformer while the 6L6's can put 50w. The Bassman uses a 50w Output Transformer for the 50w 6L6's. This affects the weight of the amp and tone. The larger the OT, the most bass. Leo Fender used smaller OTs to limit the wattage, namely the bass, of amps so they could be used with a wider range of speakers. Those amps limited by the OT had a sweet tone, but also broke-up differently since the OT is pushed before the the power tubes.
*The Bassman also sounds a bit different from the typical Fender, not in a bad way - just different*

I had a Bassman in a 112 and thought it was great, but wanted less Bass and I prefer the lighter weight of the DR as well. IIRC, I believe the combo cab was built by Nowell. A Bandmaster in a 112 would be really cool, a bit lighter than the Bassman with less weight. Definitely lighter and a bit less bass than a Twin. It will be a bit quieter, but I'd still wonder if it is ideal for a dorm-room amp - probably is ok, but the sweet spot will be loud enough to piss off neighbors and the weight might get annoying if you a few floors up.

Hoody · July 12, 2014, 09:45:27 AM

Heady is correct that the sweet spot on a band master would be too loud for a dorm, but it also sounds really great at low volumes. One thing I'd check is to make sure it still has those little blue pill looking thingys. I'm blanking on what they're called, maybe someone can help me out. But those things are the key, and sometimes people harvest them out of these vintage amps and then sell the amp without them. They're what give it the natural compression and smooth sound and really key.

And I think you can get a great bandmaster for less than 800. More like 650-750 for the head in pretty good shape.

Wouldn't a bassman be a lot more? And also a good deal louder at sweet spot?

Buffered · July 12, 2014, 10:01:38 AM

That's why I suggested the Express + for different volume situations. Of course 5W can still be way to loud but at that point the sweet spot is more within reach.

Hoody · July 12, 2014, 10:37:09 AM

I actually have both, and I'd say there isn't really a sweet spot on the express. It's all good at any volume, and the break up is more with which channel and the dirt you set. Whereas on fenders the dirt/breakup depends solely on volume.

I think the band master is a better "value" at 650-750, an express will be over 1k for the plus model.

Heady Jam Fan · July 12, 2014, 11:02:30 AM

Quote from: Hoody on July 12, 2014, 09:45:27 AM
Heady is correct that the sweet spot on a band master would be too loud for a dorm, but it also sounds really great at low volumes. One thing I'd check is to make sure it still has those little blue pill looking thingys. I'm blanking on what they're called, maybe someone can help me out. But those things are the key, and sometimes people harvest them out of these vintage amps and then sell the amp without them. They're what give it the natural compression and smooth sound and really key.

And I think you can get a great bandmaster for less than 800. More like 650-750 for the head in pretty good shape.

Wouldn't a bassman be a lot more? And also a good deal louder at sweet spot?

I think your talking about the Capacitors? Caps usually last about 10 years - longer if the amp is used regularly, shorter if the amp sits. My SFDR had original caps - they looked and tested fine, but I had them replaced and it gave the amp more output and punch. The NOS ones are nice, but pricey. My tech used Sprague Atoms (not NOS).

A Bassman usually costs about the same. The BF Bassman I had was on the more expensive end, but it came with NOS glass and was a personal amp of a builder who learned a bit about the trade from Bill C. The local tech I was going to at the time said the amp was wired kinda like a Dumble, but I switched it back to stock at some point.

The Bassman has much less headroom than most Fenders and the extra wattage is mostly bass - bass eats up wattage/headroom and blows speakers. But the Bassman circuit is the only Fender circuit that sounds ok with a Master Volume IMO. I had a PPIMV in mine.

Deadicated Phan · July 13, 2014, 01:54:30 PM

So I'm probably gonna pull the trigger on this avatar cab on eBay, looks like exactly what I want, what do you guys think about avatar

http://m.ebay.com/itm/201125892609?nav=SEARCH

Heady Jam Fan · July 13, 2014, 04:16:11 PM

Quote from: Deadicated Phan on July 13, 2014, 01:54:30 PM
So I'm probably gonna pull the trigger on this avatar cab on eBay, looks like exactly what I want, what do you guys think about avatar

http://m.ebay.com/itm/201125892609?nav=SEARCH

Avatar is pretty good and thats a fair price IMO. Probably one of the best/better bang-for-buck cabinets until you start dropping dime on something like a Mesa or boutique. I had one I got used from GC - it was a 212 and after I sold the speakers, I think the cab cost me $60 or less.

Deadicated Phan · July 14, 2014, 05:19:09 PM

What do you guys think about the Deluxe Amps (non reverb) is it exactly the same as the deluxe minus reverb? They seem to go for quite a bit less the DRs

Buffered · July 14, 2014, 10:34:33 PM

I think part of the fender magic is the reverb

sour d · July 15, 2014, 07:50:49 AM

Quote from: Buffered on July 14, 2014, 10:34:33 PM
I think part of the fender magic is the reverb

I have to disagree. My favorite amp on this planet is my '64 deluxe (non-reverb). You don't miss the reverb at all. You can jumper the channels on the non-reverb's too.

Heady Jam Fan · July 15, 2014, 08:18:40 AM

Part of the magic is the reverb IF you love Fender reverb

. The DR has the best of any of the Fender amps, by a lot of accounts. I love the way it sounds, but reverb can make it hard to be heard in a live band situation and its easy to overdo it on a Fender.

The reverb is part of the magic IF you looking for the additional gain stage. The reverb tube works as an additional gain stage on the 2nd (reverb/tremolo) channel of the amp. This gives the 2nd channel a thicker & more overdriven sound while the first channel has more headroom. On a Non-Reverb Deluxe, both channels would be a bit more similar to the first channel of a DR.

Aside from nuances, if your looking for a clean tone and don't care for reverb (or prefer to use a pedal), the Deluxe is a great amp.
If you want real Fender Reverb and more tube overdrive, the DR is the way to go.

One of the members here has been using a BF Non-Reverb Deluxe for years and is completely in love with it. The clean headroom might be ideal for Trey-like tones (though of course you can set a DR clean too). For basic classic rock, sometimes I like the extra overdrive I get with the Reverb tube - I just crank the amp to 10 and use my volume knob, no pedals. However, I wonder if, as Sour D said, jumpering the channels would give you that extra 'umph' that the 2nd channel of the DR has. I used to jumper the channels of my Bassman sometimes and it has a cool effect. Not to mention, if you wanted to you could modify the Non-Reverb Deluxe to be a one channel amp with the preamp tube from both channels in series, adding an additional gain stage.

IMO, get the Non-Reverb Deluxe if you try it, it sounds good to you, and you don't/won't miss the reverb. However, if your a reverb junky, wait / save up for a DR. The cost difference might be worth it in the long run, because the reverb on a DR - IMO - beats any pedal by a mile.